Musical Morons

Colby Tipton · Post by **Colby Tipton** » 21 Jan 2007 5:22 pm

I played with some guys one night back in the 70's and they was so out of tune it sounded like all of them was in a different key. Sometimes it didn't even sound like they was all playing the same song it was so bad. They ask me to come back and play steel the next night and I told them I had another gig setup for the next night.

Corky Anderson · Post by **Corky Anderson** » 21 Jan 2007 7:33 pm

Hey Buddy, I do feel for you. I have been there a few times, and it will kill your spirit so quit the gig now if you can. I will offer you some advice by sharing a little of my story. I dumped the whole music thing in jan of 97' to work a day job that turned out to be one of the biggest mistakes I have ever made. I quit that job after only one week with about $400.00 worth of overdue bills hanging over my head ,plus my mortgage payment was due in three weeks. What I did was I got on the phone and called everybody I had ever worked with and told them my dilemma. I called my old boss, Brian Sklar, whom I had been on the road with but left in 92 because I had a newborn son at that time and asked him what was up. To make a very long story a little shorter, I started doing gigs with Brian, and because of my networking I started getting calls from some pretty good bands. My friend Donny Parenteau moved back to Canada after playing fiddle for Neil Mcoy for 12 yrs and I called him right quick, and now I do some great gigs with his hot band.
Billy Phelps, out of Katey Texas, had worked with Brian Sklar in my absence ,and this mutual friendship saw me and Billy playing the Calgary Stampede, and then a festival in Norway doing the dual steel guitar thing in 2005! I also had the great priviledge of playing at the Dallas steel show last march for Carter Guitars through my friend Billy. I know I've gotten too long winded here Quesney, but the point I'm making is get on, and STAY ON the radar! Persistant networking has worked wonders for me! Life is good. Maybe you will want to try it! Good luck!

Bob Ritter · Post by **Bob Ritter** » 21 Jan 2007 7:48 pm

man you guys would have loved jammin with me and my ol buddy freind in my garage this afternoon...We just play and dont have a care in the world what it sounds like..most of the time...sometimes we play the same song over and over like 4 times till we work it out what we are working on..He has an original called " rock and roll machine" we plan on recording it so we worked it out..after the superbowl we will record it.

John De Maille · Post by **John De Maille** » 21 Jan 2007 8:58 pm

In the early 70's, when I started to play steel, I used a "pitch pipe" to tune my basic notes ( E,B,D ) then I used harmonics and my hearing for the rest. I'm lucky enough to have good hearing, so, the rest of the band would tune from my steel. It worked for most of the time. I finally got an "electronic tuner", a Korg, in fact, with all the sharps and flats. What a great invention ! HA! HA! It worked like a charm, but, nobody else ever, and I mean ever, retuned after a set or when the temperature changed or even just for the hell of it. I guess they figured, I tuned it once- it's ok for the rest of the night. If I made a comment about being "in tune", I was told "it's good enough for country". I'm happy to say that, I no longer play with people of that calibre, or no calibre. Every musician I've worked with since then, tunes his instrument correctly and keeps it in tune, myself included. Sometimes, because of predicaments, this happens a lot during the course of a show, but, it's worth it. In the words of ( I think ? ) Roger McGuinn- We tune because we care !
It's no fun playing with out of tune hackers. Try to set them straight or find another bunch of strings to be harmonious with.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 21 Jan 2007 9:03 pm

Remember one night getting a call to play a gig in Mont.Ala,Iwas playing guitar at the time,After a couple of three chord tunes,they told me to play an instrumental tune,Can't remember the song,but told the bass man the song had an Fsharp in it,he replied the bass don't have an Fsharp on it,I realized then I was screwed for the rest of the night[and I was]The only consolation was it was a 200.00 dollar job.Another one that comes to mind,was called for a steel job,myself and one of best lead guitar players in the area,Was a front man playing non-electric flattop,a YOUNG drummer,and bass,The bass man did'nt show up,the great guitar player had to play bass,I was stuck with having to play all the intros,fills,and leads on steel,But that's NOT all,The singer called the first tune,I turned to the drummer and said,[count it off]He gave me that deer in the headlight look and said[WHAT DO YOU MEAN]KNEW I WAS SCREWED AGAIN.I laugh at a lot of these things now,But they were'nt so funny when they happened.

Bob Ritter · Post by **Bob Ritter** » 21 Jan 2007 9:13 pm

well we aint that bad. we know how to tune and how to play, we just dont care. We made our musical statments years ago. we are just lookin for a way to get a giggle

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 21 Jan 2007 9:18 pm

I have to admit guys that I was one of those band morons when I first started playing steel. Even though I had been playing music and had been on stage and with named singers for near forty years, it wasn't that way when I first started playing my steel.

I was a great faker however. I knew when to stay off the strings and when to make a big deal out a chord progression I knew I could handle. I started jamming with some friends about six weeks after I got the steel and learned just how crappy I really was on the steel. It didn't slow me down however.

My first steel gig was with a church band less than eight months after I bought my steel. I knew how all the chords and the proper progressions were supposed to work and sound but I pretty much had to faked it on my steel. Only one or two members of the band picked up on my short fall but they were patient and let me do my thing until I learned to fit in, one step at a time. The band leader however was another story.

A musical moron? No. Know music and how to tune? Yes. Did I know how to play my steel guitar? NO: but I was very stubborn. I guess however, I probably was one of those band morons!

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 21 Jan 2007 9:26 pm

Well, here is what is scarry to me about this subject. Most if not all those bad players that have been referred to think they are good pickers. So, it has occurred to me more than once that I, (we) could also be one of those guys and just don't know it either. Food for thought I guess. If we are not one of those then we should be very thankful. If we are one of those then I guess we should be very thankful that we don't know it.
Jerry

Mark Tomlinson · Post by **Mark Tomlinson** » 21 Jan 2007 10:20 pm

One of the best gigs I ever played was in Des Moines, Iowa with the New Anarchy String Band; playing folk music for an anti-death penalty rally in a Thai food restaurant/micro-brewhouse. Fantastic gig! The trailing chorus of our last song was: "This land is your land, this land is Thailand." I learned so much playing with that group, and also put on about 10 pounds from drinking home brew.

Worst musical situation I ever been in had nothing really to do with the performance or the show, but it was the leader of the band who failed to demand that the piano be tuned or exchanged. We had at least 6 other baby grand pianos to choose from more than 6 hours before the show, and he failed to ask the management to make the swap. The pianist would play with his left hand in one key, and the right hand in another; and refused to play his electric keys. After 5 weeks on the tour with this group, I'd had enough and just stepped off the stage at intermission and never looked back. Still bugs me today, I guess.

Quesney Gibbs · Post by **Quesney Gibbs** » 22 Jan 2007 6:04 am

Well....as I go to the gig tonight I will think about the words of encouragement from everyone and just keep on keeping on. I am disgusted about the whole thing but I need the money.

I think my problem boils down to the fact that I have been lucky enough to tour with some very good bands and I guess I expect better.

My greatest fear is that someone will come in that I know and ask me what the heck I am doing with those clowns. Sadly the guys I am playing with have been doing their thing for years and have no desire to learn anything.

AND THE PEOPLE THERE JUST LOVE US.........

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 22 Jan 2007 6:15 am

Well QT if like a whole bunch of us you need the money, put it on the dash or the seat where you can look at it on the way home.

It helps by reminding you why you did it.

Pity those that do the same kind of gigs for tips and for free.

EJL

Tom Mossburg · Post by **Tom Mossburg** » 22 Jan 2007 7:27 am

Hang in there Quesney. I have to agree with all that hate the "drunken out of tuners". For me however the #1 thing the thing that drives me nuts is singers, drummers, bass players that have no concept of timing. I might as well be playing while having a root canal. My dad was a great player with great chops and timing. His way of dealing with it was he had the uncanny ability to play exactly along with a singers bad timing or pitch. His horn man was the same way they'd reproduce the same wrong stuff right with the singer and they'd play the whole song that way. It was hilarious!

Eddie D.Bollinger · Post by **Eddie D.Bollinger** » 22 Jan 2007 9:46 am

Let's just say I have had similar experiences. While in college,
I played with a foursome of pickers. Classic and progressive
country. I will share a couple of the surreal experiences.
As a favor to one of the picker's relatives. We played a little community center gig on a Saturday Nite. Steels were rare there so the "House" band asked me to sit in. I knew I was
in trouble when they played the 3 chord version of "Statue of a
Fool". A girl walked over to my steel and said "That is one of them things that Tammy Wynette has in her band. Did you know
I am gonna be the NEXT Tammy Wynette?" I said ....Gosh,
No I didn't. She attempted "Stand by your Man" (The 3 chord
version). It was brain-wrenching. And BTW, she was barefoot.
AAAh.....The stylings of rural Mississippi.

Jim Bob Sedgwick · Post by **Jim Bob Sedgwick** » 22 Jan 2007 10:12 am

I remember a song (title escapes me). The band leader told the guitar player that this one is in the key of Eb. Guitar player responded "I'm not tuning my guitar down to Eb for anybody). PS He wasn't with the band on the next gig.

Mike Wolfenbarger · Post by **Mike Wolfenbarger** » 22 Jan 2007 12:58 pm

This thread is what I love about the Forum. I'm a classically trained musician who respects the **** out of steelers; it's a monster instrument and takes really dedicated players to truly perform. I thought that it was just me who was unhappy with the "surroundings". I can stop those therapist payments now; it seems that I'm not alone!!!!!

John De Maille · Post by **John De Maille** » 22 Jan 2007 1:55 pm

This post has split a bit, in that, it was stated that a novice steel player might be considered a "musical moron". I disagree with that wholeheartedly. We've all been there as beginning steel players and if we were lucky, we transpired to work with better musicians and got better at playing our steels. If we ( I ) couldn't cut it, two things would happen. You would be let go or the band would be lenient enough to let you learn along the way. ( I've been there ) The latter part being the better- you fullfilling a need in the band and you getting your chops down. Beneficial for both parts.
The initial post though, is NOT a no brainer. Many aspects enter into the scheme of things. Just "you" being able to play once or twice a week is a plus, the money ( someone paying you to play ) is always a boost, plus getting out and being seen by someone, who, may offer you a better gig is a big dividend. Who knows where situations may go.
I, personally, can't stand to play like that. I'm no end all, cure all, greatest steel player in the world. I never will be, but, I have my criterias and at this stage of my life I refuse to reduce myself to a hackers attitude. You really must do what suits you best. All the luck !

Bill Myrick · Post by **Bill Myrick** » 22 Jan 2007 3:53 pm

Heck I play two gigs a month for nothing that has it's moments of nerve shattering numbers. (Music potluck with who ever shows to sing with the house band) but---in spite of it all, there's enough enjoyment and fellowship to overshadow the rest and it's good. Just have to drink lots of "water" huh Norma Jean ?

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 22 Jan 2007 8:02 pm

Alright Here's the Bet.

I say he comes back, says he gave them a piece of his mind, took the money, and did what I said, and will be back with them next monday.

1$donation to the first Tip Jar gig I come across.

Even odds.

EJL

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 22 Jan 2007 9:52 pm

I confess to getting impatient with musicians sometimes, especially if they're arrogant in their ignorance. But I'll bet that if we're completely honest with ourselves, many if not most of us - including me, for sure - were somebody's "musical moron" at one time or another - maybe a long time ago, but nonetheless, some other musicians have probably tolerated our playing to get through a gig. On steel, I had some very tolerant friends several years back who let me cut my teeth in their band - lemme tell you, it wasn't pretty at first.

But I worked like the devil to try to figure things out.

To me, as long as the people I'm playing with are sincerely trying to learn and get better, and aren't jerks, I can enjoy playing. But I gave up trying to make a living at music specifically so I could pick and choose what and with whom I play. I don't ever want to "have" to take a gig with a bunch of annoying, poor players with a bad attitude just because I need to pay the bills. If that makes me arrogant, so be it.

Ernie Pollock · Post by **Ernie Pollock** » 23 Jan 2007 10:50 am

Man, I have done that so many times, its tough, but some good paying gigs have been done with this group, what is it that they have against music??

Ernie Pollock

http://www.hereintown.net/~shobud75/stock.htm

Klaus Caprani · Post by **Klaus Caprani** » 23 Jan 2007 11:29 am

.......like having a guitarplayer omitting the signature-guitarlicks in "Hotel California" substituting it with a lame piece of crappy playing, while defending the viewpoint that "it's not important for the song"?

Been there done that.

Larry Strawn · Post by **Larry Strawn** » 23 Jan 2007 11:45 am

Klaus;
I find lots of times I can't play a signature lick, or not just like it is on the CD. When faced with that situation I try to play it as close as I can, or play something I feel will blend and not destroy the song.
To defend the position it doesn't need to be there simply because I can't play it is absurd!

Larry

Klaus Caprani · Post by **Klaus Caprani** » 23 Jan 2007 11:53 am

....not to be able to replicate a signature lick, or to make ones own version of it.

What I meant was actually having a guitarplayer who's so convinced about his technical superiority that he deliberately chooses to skip a signature-lick because it's too "corny", "profane", "boring", "easy", whatever, and therefore not giving him the chance to show himself as the new Van Halen or whoever..

Such guys puts their ego's in front of whichever song they're playing, even if that ego isn't something that I would be too proud of personally.

Larry Strawn · Post by **Larry Strawn** » 23 Jan 2007 12:10 pm

Uh huh,
I've worked with a couple of those before, for a short period of time.

Larry

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 23 Jan 2007 8:53 pm

I played in a band where after 9 months I explained in the studio
a G major scale and a G Minor scale to the singer/guitarist frontman,
after a take was deemed out of tune, (caused by bad chords on his part).
We fixed the chord, he acknowleged the correctness and improved sound.
He had never noticed it live, until hearing the studio playback....

He fired me 3 days later. ( 'oh blessed relief)
Bassplayers shouldn't explain basic theory to guitarists...
"they don't have enought strings to know what's correct."
Even though I also played mandolin and dobro on the seesion...

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