Digitally Pitch-shifted Pedal Steel Guitar

[Lee Baucum]

I wonder how well it tracks wide vibrato and bar slides.

[Dan Ray]

To Andrew and Fred's point, 90 percent of my playing/practicing is unplugged (hopefully this won't last forever, my little ones will eventually grow up) and this digital steel would basically not work at all like that.

But man oh man, I really thought it was gonna sound much worse. Very innovative and crazy what he's pulled off so far, I really hope there's a finished product one day.

I guess it was only a matter of time. The tech has to be similar to those Line 6 Variax's. It's very hard to tell that those guitars are really just producing digital representations of a guitar string sound. You can change tunings, tambers heck, you can even turn a string off if you want - and no string tensions change.

[Damir Besic]

2 years old video , and nothing comes up on Google search , and if you go to his website some weird stuff comes up , nothing to do with steel guitars …

[Mike Preuss]

Here is a similar instrument. Strings for the right hand, some sort of sensor for the left? I applaud these creators for their skill and ingenuity.
https://youtu.be/Ht6hbYVp-24?si=QS_euT1YMFZrWrtQ

[Whip Lashaway]

I’m wondering about the sound coming from the strings. It may be digitally changed through the amp but you still have the acoustic sound from the strings that are not changed. I would think that would be very distracting. This might be a good tool for experimenting with different setups and tunings but I don’t think it would be good for performances. Great idea though.

[D. Scheindlin]

I’m wondering about the sound coming from the strings. It may be digitally changed through the amp but you still have the acoustic sound from the strings that are not changed. I would think that would be very distracting. This might be a good tool for experimenting with different setups and tunings but I don’t think it would be good for performances. Great idea though.

It’s a really good question. I wonder how much of an issue it’d be when playing in a band setting vs at home/solo.

[Greg Cutshaw]

I do all of playing now with headphones or ear buds. No amp and no problem with room acoustics. So hearing the strings is not an issue for me. Of course this new instrument will have issues and it’s an amazing prototype that will be improved but that has numerous advantages over any guitar I’ve ever seen. My original post was just for information and I found out about this guitar from someone else’s post on FB. Maybe the sound is digitally generated and altered as needed but that sound could be tailored to sound like any brand of guitar, sustain, harmonics and so on. And it’s not like our existing guitars don’t also have issues like cabinet drop, string buzzes, strings aging, strings breaking from stretching, complicated copedant changes, temperature effects on open and pedal tuning etc.

[Fred Treece]

The first reaction to even the smallest challenge to conventional wisdom is going to involve the target clientele grasping at straws to find a problem with it. This is a sea change! I think most of the responses here show the open-minded nature of the steel guitar community at large, albeit with minor concerns and reservations. I would certainly like the opportunity to at least try the OnePSG before going to the ballot box on it.

[J D Sauser]

I don't want to be the "told you so"-guy... but I did predicted this for over 2 Decades and was rather laughed at for doing so on this forum many times, even on the newer Builder's section.

I think that as far as electronics, this could have been done 20 years ago when electronic pianos became good. Pitch shifting is simple "math" to electronic devices and is being used in the recording industry now near constantly ever since singers are not expected to be able to "hold a tune" anymore as long they have BIG tushies and perky oversized breasts competing with the front bumper of a 1956 Cadillac's "bullets".

I was aware of the efforts now posted by the OP and in contact with the developer for some time now. But since this was not scheduled for public release, I won't go beyond saying that their effort is way beyond "just some experiment".
There are some name-players aware of it (test-played it) and at least one name player many of us know about on the Forum even involved with it. So, you can expect a REAL professional grade digital PSG to come out of this effort.

Is it going to replace "our" mechanical PSG's? In my opinion, no... or at least not anytime soon. But I think it may take a market share at all levels, from bed-room aficionados to road players.
I also think, that if it gets commercialized, we will eventually see other (competing/alternate) versions of it and this may create a whole new approach to steel guitar as such as it could find it's application with non-pedal steel guitars too ("vario-tuning" and some paddle changes or digital knee levers even on a lap-steel).
I for one suggested re-designing the instrument completely since there is no more undercarriage and thus no more need for the inverted "U"-shaped cabinet I personally find detrimental to tone when compared to good sounding non-pedal steels (a sound-board built with TONE in mind).
If I was given that kind of technology I would also go back to a "clean" bridge instead of taking over the large radius bridge which was a mechanical necessity when changers came along at the bridge.
But I would understand that the creators of this new instrument, may rather care to retain at least the expected LOOK of a PSG.

I could also imagine that someone could some day make a version that runs on a tablet (iPad/Android/Windows) and just sell a pickup with a set of wired pedals and/or levers which could be fitted to pretty much any stringed instrument... from guitars to even a concert harp!

The "only" drawback I see with it, is NOT tone, or "tracking" or noticeable delay... but the fact that, when playing a lower volumes (home or studio) one may hear the strings' original pitch clash with what comes pitch altered out of the amp's speaker. Easy fix: just do what Jerry Lee Lewis would do... play louder!

... J-D.

[Donny Hinson]

One of my primary concerns is always reliability, as electronic components will never have the service life of mechanical devices. (Pedal steels made 70+ years ago still work fine today.) Glitches, programming bugs, and data losses with anything digital are far too common, and they get even more common as the technology ramps up. I've even invented a term for it "OP-WROND" (Old Programs Wont Run On New Devices), as this problem has bitten me in the ass so many times in the last 35 years.

My other concern is the temperaments of the virtual tunings. How are the programmed? Are they easily modifiable? Are the C6th (more ET-inclined) and the E9th (more JI-inclined) offsets being dealt with? I realize this is a new technology, but the example clip in the video was far too pitchy for my even old ears.

I applaud new technology, and I wish the designers and manufacturers well, but only when that technology is truly better, cheaper, and easier to operate than the old stuff.

As one auto reviewer put it: "Yes, the 1100-watt, 21 speaker, integrated sound system in that car sounds great, but why do you have to go through 7 menus to turn the radio down?"

[Rich Peterson]

MIDI technology is 43 years old. I suspect that AI--Artificial Intelligence-- that everyone is talking about will be a game changer for music synthesis and production. Apparently it can mimic just about anything we can do. The mechanics free Pedal Steel Guitar is probably much closer than we suspect.

This system has nothing to do with MIDI; also not an automatic harmonizer. Therefor it does not perform pitch recognition. It just shifts the sound that comes in. It would have no more latency than a digital guitar pedal.

I hope this idea develops into a product. Not only would there be major weight reduction, but since the tension on the string would not be changing, the body would not need extreme stiffness and other tonewood options would be available.

However.... Alan hasn't posted on SGF in over 2 years.

[Fred Treece]

However.... Alan hasn't posted on SGF in over 2 years.

He did log in to the forum on November 15. Maybe he’s watching the activity here on this thread for kicks and giggles.

[Dave Mudgett]

I listened a while back and thought it sounded OK overall. I think the lower tonality of the C6 sounded better than the E9 sounds, and that seems to be a theme on all of the emulated pedal steel sounds I've heard so far over several years. But for a lot of people, these sounds would pass just fine as a "pedal steel". I have heard people using synthesized "pedal steel" sounds in mixes that don't sound anywhere near this good.

Right now, it seems to be in interesting 'laboratory tool' and a successful proof-of-concept. The technology for this kind of thing is moving very, very fast. In the fretted guitar world, the use of pitch-shifting devices has been around for a long time - at least 50 years, and at this point, mainstream. Octave pedals, Drop pedals, Harmonizers, as well as whole guitar synthesizers are routinely used, and have been for some time. Overall, synthesizers are ubiquitous in music production, and have been for a long time.

I just see this, ultimately, as an alternative to a mechanical pedal steel. Just as synthesizers have not replaced electric and especially acoustic guitars, I don't see this replacing the mechanical pedal steel. But I think there will ultimately be a place for this in the steel guitar world.

Interestingly, I see the learning curve for this type of pedal steel pretty much the same as for a mechanical pedal steel. But the ability to rapidly change setups and, in principle, put as many changes on a steel without physical limitations inherent in doing this mechanically, could be very interesting.

[Dennis Detweiler]

The buyer would have to have a total trust in electronics. Not me. The future of AI and electronics could eventually leave musicians without work and Chucky Cheese would take center stage again. Featuring Buddy The Robot.

[Ross Shafer]

"The buyer would have to have a total trust in electronics."

Kind of like almost every professional keyboard player in the world does....actually there' so much digital electronics involved in modern music performance, production and gear...I can't understand this sort of reticence.

Total trust in electronics is needed in many aspects of our lives these days...computers, vehicles, tools, etc....many places with far more dire consequences if they fail....and yes they do...at an alarmingly low rate compared to their vast usage.

As much as I love, love, love the beautiful, fascinating, wacky world of mechanical pedal steels...I truly believe this is the future of the instrument. I do not think mechanical pedal steels will go away, but the number of doors an instrument like Alan Pagliere's and another gent's (Jeff Snyder) opens for current and future players is considerable.

I'm not trying to single Dennis out and I apologize if this comes off that way. The pedal steel came to be through player's desires and technical additions to non-pedal steels....this inevitable transition to the inclusion of more electronics is simply more of the same, just using the tools available to us today.

I'm sure the same negative attitudes existed about electric and electronic keyboards long ago....obviously the naysayers have been quieted on that.

Remember Dylan was booed at the inclusion of electric instruments (new technology) when he showed up with the Band in 1965 at the Newport Folk Festival.

Anyway, I cannot wait to see how these instruments proceed and wish the inventors grand success!

[Dennis Detweiler]

I agree Ross. However, the problem with high tech electronics comes into play when repairs are needed. You can't fix it yourself and it usually comes at a high cost to repair. Some new products cost of repairs exceeds the unit itself and you just throw it away. Plus, much of electronics manufacturing ends up in the hands of China at some point to lower the cost of production. This presents a major purchase risk with newly developed equipment. I like the concept of digital steel, but I think it's a long way off for the players. If the steel is digital, why not the player?

[J D Sauser]

The buyer would have to have a total trust in electronics. Not me. The future of AI and electronics could eventually leave musicians without work and Chucky Cheese would take center stage again. Featuring Buddy The Robot.

Don’t set a foot into one of commercial jet liners, then! Ha!
And if you don’t, don’t look up either… they’re everywhere, just waiting to freeze and fall on’ya.


I’m joking! I have a deep distrust for electronics myself, because once it acts up or tries to be “oh so smart”, unless one is a geek, there’s no fixin’ it yourself.
So it goes with today’s amps, the keyboard player’s “whatever’ya’call’that’thang” and pretty much every thing surrounding us nowadays. Just like your grandchild sure is not going to resurrect thay electric “Mustang” you kept in you shed, promising “I’ll fix it someday”… the wash out that carb on the 57 Belair and give it a good healthy 12v jolt while banging on the Bendix days are sadly long gone.

But yes, an electrinic instrument, which this on is, will one day start to flicker and die. And I would believe the builders are fully aware of that. And so should, just like with a keyboard, the buyer be conscious of that act too.

… JD

[Dennis Detweiler]

Lol, yes JD, the pilots can take a nap. Pilots will soon be out of work. I'm 75 and flew a lot of commercial airlines in the Army. At that time, you walked into the airport, handed your bigger suitcase or duffel bag into baggage, picked up your ticket and boarded the plane by walking up to the ticket taker at the ramp, handed him your ticket and boarded the plane carrying your hand bag. No security check, like entering a movie theater. Quick and easy. My oh my, how hate and nut cases have changed the procedure. Electronics everywhere. If I can't drive to my destination, I don't go.

[Bill McCloskey]

Deleted.

[Greg Cutshaw]

Alan is still working on the prototype. I picked up that video on FB where someone else posted it. Alan really is not ready to advertise it but what happens on FB does not stay on FB!

[Sam Conomo]

[quote="J D Sauser"][quote="Dennis Detweiler"]The buyer would have to have a total trust in electronics. Not me. The future of AI and electronics could eventually leave musicians without work and Chucky Cheese would take center stage again. Featuring Buddy The Robot.[/quote]

Don’t set a foot into one of commercial jet liners, then! Ha!
And if you don’t, don’t look up either… they’re everywhere, just waiting to freeze and fall on’ya.


I’m joking! I have a deep distrust for electronics myself, because once it acts up or tries to be “oh so smart”, unless one is a geek, there’s no fixin’ it yourself.
So it goes with today’s amps, the keyboard player’s “whatever’ya’call’that’thang” and pretty much every thing surrounding us nowadays. Just like your grandchild sure is not going to resurrect thay electric “Mustang” you kept in you shed, promising “I’ll fix it someday”… the wash out that carb on the 57 Belair and give it a good healthy 12v jolt while banging on the Bendix days are sadly long gone.

But yes, an electrinic instrument, which this on is, will one day start to flicker and die. And I would believe the builders are fully aware of that. And so should, just like with a keyboard, the buyer be conscious of that act too.

… JD[/quote]

[Bill McCloskey]

Deleted.

[Tim Toberer]

I would be like to see this technology used to make a student model guitar that is in the $500-$750 dollar range. Something comparable to a decent beginner model guitar. I doubt these are the ambitions of the builders however. Looks promising though.

[James Mayer]

Interestingly, I see the learning curve for this type of pedal steel pretty much the same as for a mechanical pedal steel. But the ability to rapidly change setups and, in principle, put as many changes on a steel without physical limitations inherent in doing this mechanically, could be very interesting.

I could really see how this would speed up the learning process. Imagine the screen displaying moving notes or scale degrees on 10 strings. I think it would be so much easier for a beginner to understand all of the options for changes and harmonized scales, etc.

Something like this, which I use all the time:
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/steel-sid ... tform=ipad

[Fred Treece]

I could really see how this would speed up the learning process. Imagine the screen displaying moving notes or scale degrees on 10 strings. I think it would be so much easier for a beginner to understand all of the options for changes and harmonized scales, etc.

Something like this, which I use all the time:
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/steel-sid ... tform=ipad

I’ve been using SSK for about 5 years too, including just today, trying to figure out why nobody can play bebop without pedals on E9 like the masters do on C6. I still don’t know, but it’s a very cool app nonetheless. An interactive version of it in line with a digital changer would indeed be a serious game changer for the learning process. John Sohn, are you watching this thread, sir?