Digitally Pitch-shifted Pedal Steel Guitar

[Greg Cutshaw]

Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xm0pQ0qg4ME

Patent:

https://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2018/0053494.html

[Ron Hogan]

Amazing.

[Ian Rae]

I'm trying to come up with a downside, but nothing so far

[Tommy Mc]

I'm trying to come up with a downside, but nothing so far

I was thinking the same thing. I wonder if there's latency. Most of the sample playing was chords and slower stuff. Still, it's pretty impressive.

[Greg Cutshaw]

Yeah I wondered about the latency but over time technology will solve any existing latency issues. I assume that the pedals and knee levels are proportionally controlling the pitch. I've designed quite a few servo machines for automation and the digital technology is a much simpler approach.

Think about programming the 1st and second strings for 1/2 and full tones moves on the fly or between songs. Eliminating the the changer finger wear and other mechanical items is pretty huge. Using open strings in all different keys, the list of possibilities seems endless. Cabinet drop and detuning fanatics can find some other source of annoyance lol.

This looks like an older post and the actual web site for this guitar seems not to exist anymore.

[Dan Kelly]

I usually listen to things on YouTube at 1.5X to 2X normal speed. I noticed that the sound of the OnePSG Prototype steel became very "wonkie." It is OK to try this at home and see what you think about the sound.

When I listen to regular steel by other players on YouTube at faster speeds, the sound is just faster with no wonkieness. I am not sure what that means... but I can imagine that using the OnePSG Prototype steel for recording might be an issue. Also, it might effect the use of FX pedals, as well. How do plug ins on any given DAW handle it?

On the surface, this is a very cool innovation that could open up a huge expansion of tuning experimentation.

However, the OnePSG Prototype was showcased over two years ago... What happened?

[David Higginbotham]

Quite impressive creation and one can’t argue the extensive benefits. But (and please correct me if I’m wrong) every sound is a digital interpretation of the input signal from the strings rather than the actual sound of the strings. Latency has come a long way over the years and is minimal and nearly non existent in many applications. I use a whammy DT pedal and really like it for what I need it for. But its obvious that it’s digitally duplicated and incorporates an almost compressor effect by equally applying the sound of each note regardless of how it’s picked.

In the case of this digital pedal steel…the strings are simply an actuator for the computer to produce a digital note rather than the actual string vibration transferring through the pickup. This would affect the change in notes applied to pedals or knee levers and give its interpretation of change, which is purposely subtle or abrupt as desired by the player. It would be impossible to add the “personal” touch by the player as every change would be the same speed preset into a computer. So much for soulful playing and individuality!

Aside from that, I must say it’s a very advanced creation and obviously addresses some of the issues of mechanical challenges with pedal steel. Those challenges and learning to use them in one’s playing, however… is what makes the music!

[Greg Cutshaw]

From what I can hear the pedals proportionally change the pitch. 1/2 pedal would give you 1/2 pitch, same feel and rate of change as a mechanical pedal.

This thing is a marvel for a first iteration of a design and what invention is near perfect with its first demo model? Yeah it's not there yet but it has the potential IMHO to be far more capable than any existing pedal steel copedant or technology.

[Glenn Suchan]

I usually listen to things on YouTube at 1.5X to 2X normal speed. I noticed that the sound of the OnePSG Prototype steel became very "wonkie." It is OK to try this at home and see what you think about the sound.

When I listen to regular steel by other players on YouTube at faster speeds, the sound is just faster with no wonkieness. I am not sure what that means... but I can imagine that using the OnePSG Prototype steel for recording might be an issue. Also, it might effect the use of FX pedals, as well. How do plug ins on any given DAW handle it?

On the surface, this is a very cool innovation that could open up a huge expansion of tuning experimentation.

However, the OnePSG Prototype was showcased over two years ago... What happened?

Dan, when you change speed of a YouTube video on it's settings, the speed is changing but the pitch remains the same. I believe the digital processing needed to produce that result may inherently introduce the wonkiness you speak of. It may not be a shortcoming of this digital PSG. Also, when the speed of the YouTube is increased by 1.5x or 2x the vibrato used by Alan Pagliere on the demo is sped up which also introduces a quirky characteristic to the sound.

I believe the only way to truly tell the latency of this prototype would be to have a speed picking demonstration employing pedal and knee lever changes.

As for the pedal movement to pitch change, that could be (and may be) accomplished by the use of an algorithm in the software which could 'read' the amount of pedal or knee lever travel and translate that to the rate and amount of pitch change required, based on the setting selected.

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn

[Jim Norman]

My mind is officially blown! Unfortunately, as someone pointed out, this is not a recent video. Looks like 2 years old. I did send a request for the website passphrase. I'll be very interested to see if I get a response.

[Greg Cutshaw]

Mind blow this:

You would no longer be limited to just pedal steel sounds but could have authentic dobro, and other instrument sounds at your fingertips. Select pedal 1 as the Franklin pedal for a song then change it to flat the 3rd string for a Mooney sound then maybe G# to B on another. All the non pedal tunings would be there too although not with ideal string spacing. That would lead to a double neck with 6 or 8 strings on the second neck.

[Matt Perpick]

This is very fascinating. Would love to know more about this.

[Fred Treece]

Pretty soon you’ll be able to train your AI robot in a cowboy hat to play it.

[Mark McCornack]

That's a pretty neat idea, but honestly I thought it sounded pretty wanky, not very musically pleasing. Listening to the demo (around 6:00), some of the capabilities were demonstrated, but it just was not very pleasant sounding as an instrument. It might have been nice to have someone actually play some music on it too, but that was conspicuously missing from the demo.
That aside, this seems like it would be a GREAT tool for experimenting with tunings and copedents where you could easily make significant changes at will and have some fun with that. It appeals to my interest in technology as well, but it just didn't sound very good, IMHO.

[Per Berner]

One video published two years ago, NOTHING anywhere on the Internet since. Would be a very interesting thing, if it exists... ...and if the price was reasonable.
Is the guy even alive?

It might be a bit confusing, like having the gears and pedals in your car in different places depending on what mode you have selected.

I would prefer the display as a separate plug-in unit, though. Sooner or later, it will fail.

[Jeremy Threlfall]

OK - so I'm wondering .. what is the function of the tuning keys?

[Jon Light]

Alan is a forum member. Interesting that he never presented this here. (Although we haven't gotten the " **** never needed to do it this way" posts. Yet. That's always kept good thinkers away from the SGF.)

This really is cool. He has brought to life some ideas that have been kicked around for a long time. I wouldn't have a clue as to much of any of the tech involved but I would imagine that there was LOTS of problem solving involved.

I don't know how to read this stuff -- is the patent link just an application, still pending, or was he granted the patent?

[Greg Cutshaw]

I assume that the tuning keys are there to keep tension on the strings and that the digital unit expects a fixed open tuning to establish a base level and pitch.

[Karlis Abolins]

This post really took me for a loop. Monday, I bought a used Boss SY-1000 guitar synthesizer and, yesterday, I ordered a Cvcfi NU Multi 6 pickup with associated parts. This was before I saw the post and the video. I have decided to build a hex pickup lap steel. My current lap steel has benders on it and I use them to get a minor chord. The problem is that the benders lock my right hand into a fixed position which prevents me from picking freely up the neck. I had been contemplating building a lap steel with a floor pedal operating a mini changer via a cable. In my U-tube rambling I came across some videos of Alex Hutchings demonstrating the capabilities of the Boss SY-1000 guitar synthesizer. In one video, he showed how the SY-1000 supports changing tunings to alt-tunings like open G, DADGAD, etc. The SY-1000 also supoorts using foot pedals and expression pedals to dynamically change pitch on individual strings. The light went off in my head! I can use a hex pickup and a guitar synth to replace my benders.
So, when I saw Alan Pagliere's video, I was floored because he is doing the exact same thing that I was planning but on a much grander scale. His guitar is equipped with Cycfi NU individual string pickups and the pedals and knee levers are expression pedals in a different form factor from what we usually see. The SY-1000 supports using two expression pedals at the same time so my plan is to 3-D print a couple of mini expression pedals that work just like the floor pedals of a pedal steel. I can do all of this with off the shelf parts and units (except for the pedals).
I can't forsee the future but I do see a possible future with Alan Pagliere's prototype leading to successful commercial pedal steels that are lightweight, customizable, and less expensive than current guitars.

Karlis Abolins

[Fred Treece]

The SY-1000 is obviously an outgrowth of Roland’s V-Guitar system that was developed in the late 90’s. I was thinking that the OnePSG sounded like something very similar too, Karlis. Good luck with your project.

[Jim Kennedy]

MIDI technology is 43 years old. I suspect that AI--Artificial Intelligence-- that everyone is talking about will be a game changer for music synthesis and production. Apparently it can mimic just about anything we can do. The mechanics free Pedal Steel Guitar is probably much closer than we suspect.

[Justin Shaw]

This steel would be very useful as a shared instrument. You could leave it set up at church and each player that uses it could have their copedent saved, for instance.

[Andrew Goulet]

Wow, this is wild! It really opens so many questions about what kind of instrument this is. My first reaction is that it's almost more like a pedal steel-shaped midi controller than true pedal steel. I don't mean that negatively.

The sound is pretty good, but there is an unnatural timbre I can detect. Again, not necessarily a negative.

I wonder how it feels to play, since the strings won't be vibrating at the same frequency as the resultant sound. I wonder how much of the sound we feel through points of contact with a guitar.

[Fred Treece]

And forget about practicing unplugged.

[Henry Matthews]

Al Petty had something very similar way back in late 80’s. Not only could you change pitch on a string but had neat great sounding instruments like sax and piano. I don’t think you could change tunings but could get capo effect.

Changing tunings is awesome on that rig.