Looking for lap steel with room for benders
Moderator: Brad Bechtel
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Looking for lap steel with room for benders
New member here, thanks for having me.
I have what may be an odd request. I have been learning to play slide guitar (Lap steel) and I have been playing an early 50’s Rickenbacker Panda, which sounds great, but I wanted to try to use benders to get a little closer to the pedal steel sound. But most vintage lap steel guitars do not have the room behind the pickup/bridge assembly to fit a bender assembly (which needs a minimum of 2 inches). I bought a very cheap SX Chinese lap steel as a proof of concept, and I really like what the benders (Peters) can do, but this is really a pretty cheap guitar, particularly in comparison to the Rickenbacker.
So I am looking for a vintage lap steel with room on its rear deck for a bender, but I am having a problem finding one, and I would really like to keep the price under $500 or so. Well known brands like Gibson and Rickenbacker are quite expensive.
I found a 50’s Supro that looked like a good candidate, but it only had an inch and a half of available real estate behind the bridge.
I also see that Asher makes an entry level lap steel guitar (Asher Electro Hawaiian Jr.) which looks very good and can be had for $700 or $800 used and it has plenty of room for benders on it.
Does anybody have any thoughts or suggestions?
Thanks for your help.
I have what may be an odd request. I have been learning to play slide guitar (Lap steel) and I have been playing an early 50’s Rickenbacker Panda, which sounds great, but I wanted to try to use benders to get a little closer to the pedal steel sound. But most vintage lap steel guitars do not have the room behind the pickup/bridge assembly to fit a bender assembly (which needs a minimum of 2 inches). I bought a very cheap SX Chinese lap steel as a proof of concept, and I really like what the benders (Peters) can do, but this is really a pretty cheap guitar, particularly in comparison to the Rickenbacker.
So I am looking for a vintage lap steel with room on its rear deck for a bender, but I am having a problem finding one, and I would really like to keep the price under $500 or so. Well known brands like Gibson and Rickenbacker are quite expensive.
I found a 50’s Supro that looked like a good candidate, but it only had an inch and a half of available real estate behind the bridge.
I also see that Asher makes an entry level lap steel guitar (Asher Electro Hawaiian Jr.) which looks very good and can be had for $700 or $800 used and it has plenty of room for benders on it.
Does anybody have any thoughts or suggestions?
Thanks for your help.
- Chris Harwood
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Certano benders only need an inch, I believe.
National Grand Console dbl 8, Oahu Diana, Supro Comet and about 20 various elec gtrs and basses.
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- Mike Auman
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Not much help, but if you are a new player, you might want to think twice about benders. in my experience, they cause a lot of string breakage, are not the easiest instruments to restring, especially in a performance situation and I found they got in the way a lot and it also is pretty hard on your palm.
If you want a pedal steel sound, learn to bend behind the bar or get a real pedal steel. I've only heard one guy or two guys who can really make benders sound good.
My humble opinion is get used to just the lap steel, your bar work, slants, etc without having to deal with benders. Take it for what it's worth
If you want a pedal steel sound, learn to bend behind the bar or get a real pedal steel. I've only heard one guy or two guys who can really make benders sound good.
My humble opinion is get used to just the lap steel, your bar work, slants, etc without having to deal with benders. Take it for what it's worth
Check out my latest video: My Biggest Fears Learning Steel at 68: https://youtu.be/F601J515oGc
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Thanks very much for the thoughtful comments and advice. I am trying out the benders because they seem like an achievable middle point towards the sound of a pedal steel, which are not only very expensive, but seem to be a fairly formidable challenge to play. I am already a good finger picker and play second guitar and rhythm in a band, on a hollow bodied Gretsch. The lap steel has given us a nice additional texture, but I am not trying to put the lead guitar player out of business.
It is still very much a work of progress to me. I started playing on a 1930 National Tricone square neck, and now trying to get comfortable with the an electric version. I was afraid the benders would be a handicap for my right hand. But so far, it seems pretty doable, at least at my rudimentary level.
Bending behind the bar puts a load on the left hand, and my left hand is already pretty busy and still learning its own job. As you know, this is not an easy process.
So it is very much a work in progress and I am looking to improve the guitar itself, to upgrade to a better instrument. But of course we can’t replace a pedal steel with benders. Nice sound though, when they work, but they are a compromise.
Thanks again.
It is still very much a work of progress to me. I started playing on a 1930 National Tricone square neck, and now trying to get comfortable with the an electric version. I was afraid the benders would be a handicap for my right hand. But so far, it seems pretty doable, at least at my rudimentary level.
Bending behind the bar puts a load on the left hand, and my left hand is already pretty busy and still learning its own job. As you know, this is not an easy process.
So it is very much a work in progress and I am looking to improve the guitar itself, to upgrade to a better instrument. But of course we can’t replace a pedal steel with benders. Nice sound though, when they work, but they are a compromise.
Thanks again.
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"which are not only very expensive, but seem to be a fairly formidable challenge to play"
you can get a decent pedal steel for not much more than a decent lap steel. As far as the challenge, I started playing pedal steel at age 68, disabled, with 2 knee replacement and all bones in my right foot fused. I love playing every day and would never go back to lap steel. Wish I had started when I was your age.
you can get a decent pedal steel for not much more than a decent lap steel. As far as the challenge, I started playing pedal steel at age 68, disabled, with 2 knee replacement and all bones in my right foot fused. I love playing every day and would never go back to lap steel. Wish I had started when I was your age.
Check out my latest video: My Biggest Fears Learning Steel at 68: https://youtu.be/F601J515oGc
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Thanks for that thought.
To be honest, there are so many styles of guitars played with a slide—dobros, Weissenborns, regular acoustics with an extended nuts, Tricone Nationals, single cone Nationals, lap steels, lap steels with benders, two or three neck lap steels, entry level (3 pedal?) pedal steels and full monty pedal steels, that it makes my head spin. I mean, it is hard enough to play a standard guitar.
And of course each of these has its own style of music associated with it, bluegrass, blues, Hawaiian, Western Swing, old school country, new school country, country rock, country soft rock, jazz and so on.
So a lap steel with benders seems like a doable project to me, something within reach. If I knew more about pedal steel guitars, perhaps it wouldn't be so intimidating, but I was looking at a used pedal steel on Reverb, and the photograph of the thing from underneath, revealing all the linkages and rods, made my head hurt. So I am afraid I'll have to take it all one step at a time. But thanks for the response.
To be honest, there are so many styles of guitars played with a slide—dobros, Weissenborns, regular acoustics with an extended nuts, Tricone Nationals, single cone Nationals, lap steels, lap steels with benders, two or three neck lap steels, entry level (3 pedal?) pedal steels and full monty pedal steels, that it makes my head spin. I mean, it is hard enough to play a standard guitar.
And of course each of these has its own style of music associated with it, bluegrass, blues, Hawaiian, Western Swing, old school country, new school country, country rock, country soft rock, jazz and so on.
So a lap steel with benders seems like a doable project to me, something within reach. If I knew more about pedal steel guitars, perhaps it wouldn't be so intimidating, but I was looking at a used pedal steel on Reverb, and the photograph of the thing from underneath, revealing all the linkages and rods, made my head hurt. So I am afraid I'll have to take it all one step at a time. But thanks for the response.
- Joe A. Roberts
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Benders might be fun to mess with, but I’d second the suggestion to invest in a pedal steel if thats the sound you want; you don’t need anything fancy to start.
The steel without pedals is intrinsically a very different instrument from that with pedals.
Furthermore, there so much great E9th instructional material out there, vs. having to more or less carve your own path with benders (which may not be an issue depending on aptitude and above all dedication).
The steel without pedals is intrinsically a very different instrument from that with pedals.
Furthermore, there so much great E9th instructional material out there, vs. having to more or less carve your own path with benders (which may not be an issue depending on aptitude and above all dedication).
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Bob Allen lap steel
Robert...Bob Allen is right now in the process of building me a new lap steel designed to accommodate the Peters benders.
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- Mark Eaton
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Robert, no idea what Bob Allen is charging for the guitar with benders as mentioned by Michael, but before I even got to the part in your original post where you mentioned Asher, the Electro-Hawaiian Jr. popped into my head. I had one (stolen from the trunk of my car in a break-in five years ago) and I really liked that guitar. And plenty of room for the bender hardware.
Mark
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Lapsteel w/ benders
Thanks for the note, Michael. May I ask what roller bridge you are using (or if you are using one)? I thought his guitars looked like a very good value, with excellent pickups.
And may I ask why you decided to pursue the benders on your lap guitar?
Robert...I find myself taking my C6 lap out with me much more often than tearing down my pedal steel, hauling 50 lbs with the case, a big amp, a pac-a-seat, volume pedal, black box, Nux effects pedal... setting it all up ...you get it...
A couple of benders can get passably close to pedal steel for a less formal gathering and all I have to do is unzip a gig bag and plug it into a Positive Grid modeling amp behind a mic to the PA.
I love the sound of the pedal steel. But sometimes it just seems like a lot of physical effort to get to play a handful of songs that really require a pedal steel signature lick or two.
And may I ask why you decided to pursue the benders on your lap guitar?
Robert...I find myself taking my C6 lap out with me much more often than tearing down my pedal steel, hauling 50 lbs with the case, a big amp, a pac-a-seat, volume pedal, black box, Nux effects pedal... setting it all up ...you get it...
A couple of benders can get passably close to pedal steel for a less formal gathering and all I have to do is unzip a gig bag and plug it into a Positive Grid modeling amp behind a mic to the PA.
I love the sound of the pedal steel. But sometimes it just seems like a lot of physical effort to get to play a handful of songs that really require a pedal steel signature lick or two.
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Lap steel w/ benders
Sorry, I didn't answer your question.
Bob Allen is installing a brass rod nut and bridge on the steel he's building me right now. Should be just fine given that I'm only pulling (no pushing) two strings.
This is what I'm going to experiment with:
G
D > E
C
A > B
G
E
C
A
Bob Allen is installing a brass rod nut and bridge on the steel he's building me right now. Should be just fine given that I'm only pulling (no pushing) two strings.
This is what I'm going to experiment with:
G
D > E
C
A > B
G
E
C
A
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If you want the AB pedal effect of a pedal steel, that raises the 3rd a half tone and the 5th a full tone, so to get that effect on your set up, you might want to try:
G
E -> F#
C# -> D
A
G
E
C#
A
G
E -> F#
C# -> D
A
G
E
C#
A
Check out my latest video: My Biggest Fears Learning Steel at 68: https://youtu.be/F601J515oGc
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- Steve Lipsey
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Gretsch Electromatic 5700. Cheap, and extends far enough back to hold benders. I had one...
Don't forget that your right hand will have a hard time learning to use the bender and still block the strings and pick cleanly...I gave up.
Here's an interesting thread here about them...and there are lots more threads...
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtop ... 36475df0eb
Don't forget that your right hand will have a hard time learning to use the bender and still block the strings and pick cleanly...I gave up.
Here's an interesting thread here about them...and there are lots more threads...
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtop ... 36475df0eb
www.facebook.com/swingaliband & a few more....
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham "CooderNator" archtop parlor electric reso w/Fishman & Lollar string-through
Ben Bonham "ResoBorn" deep parlor acoustic reso with Weissenborn neck and Fishman
Ben Bonham Style 3 Tricone., 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor Squareneck
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham "CooderNator" archtop parlor electric reso w/Fishman & Lollar string-through
Ben Bonham "ResoBorn" deep parlor acoustic reso with Weissenborn neck and Fishman
Ben Bonham Style 3 Tricone., 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor Squareneck
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I used some 3 inch screws and the extension is black walnut. It's very sturdy. But the lap steel was a very inexpensive brand, so I was not worried about it. The benders cost more than the guitar... Lol.
I am getting the hang of the benders. The way I have it tuned it adds an extra layer and depth. I like it so far, just getting the hang of it though. I only completed the mod last week.
You can hear me bending a little yesterday morning.
https://youtu.be/lICgFubWwBI?si=q_IdjMNVkvhw8EKH
I am getting the hang of the benders. The way I have it tuned it adds an extra layer and depth. I like it so far, just getting the hang of it though. I only completed the mod last week.
You can hear me bending a little yesterday morning.
https://youtu.be/lICgFubWwBI?si=q_IdjMNVkvhw8EKH
- Jack Hanson
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I would agree that if you really want to sound like a pedal steel, get a pedal steel. Benders on a lap steel seem a fool's errand. Very difficult to achieve proper right-hand blocking technique and operate benders at the same time. Similar effects can be achieved by pulling strings behind the bar, and with bar slants.
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I am guessing that the suggestions to get a pedal steel and forget about wasting time with benders are coming from people who already play pedal steel guitars. I imagine this is like guitar players telling ukulele players that their instrument is a waste of time because it only has four strings.
While I appreciate the time and thought folks have given to make this point, and I actually agree that it is a fools errand to think that benders can replicate the sound of a pedal steel, benders do have a fairly long history (Clarence White's B bender on his Tele, for instance) and they do provide notes you can't get otherwise. I think it is a worthy experiment, even if it fails to provide what a pedal steel can provide. Of course, I don't know if that is true yet, but seems like its worth a try.
But thanks to everyone who has replied to my original post.
While I appreciate the time and thought folks have given to make this point, and I actually agree that it is a fools errand to think that benders can replicate the sound of a pedal steel, benders do have a fairly long history (Clarence White's B bender on his Tele, for instance) and they do provide notes you can't get otherwise. I think it is a worthy experiment, even if it fails to provide what a pedal steel can provide. Of course, I don't know if that is true yet, but seems like its worth a try.
But thanks to everyone who has replied to my original post.
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Benders
Robert...as an active player of lap , pedal and 6 and 8 resos, I stand by my previous suggestion that you go ahead with the benders on a lap steel.
Does it sound like a pedal steel? Kinda.
Does it have to sound like a pedal steel to get effects that will add to your music and make playing more exciting??
No.
As I said earlier in this thread, you can have a lot of fun playing memorable music without necessarily having to drag 150lbs of gear around.
Does it sound like a pedal steel? Kinda.
Does it have to sound like a pedal steel to get effects that will add to your music and make playing more exciting??
No.
As I said earlier in this thread, you can have a lot of fun playing memorable music without necessarily having to drag 150lbs of gear around.
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