Looking for lap steel with room for benders

[Robert Gardner]

New member here, thanks for having me.

I have what may be an odd request. I have been learning to play slide guitar (Lap steel) and I have been playing an early 50’s Rickenbacker Panda, which sounds great, but I wanted to try to use benders to get a little closer to the pedal steel sound. But most vintage lap steel guitars do not have the room behind the pickup/bridge assembly to fit a bender assembly (which needs a minimum of 2 inches). I bought a very cheap SX Chinese lap steel as a proof of concept, and I really like what the benders (Peters) can do, but this is really a pretty cheap guitar, particularly in comparison to the Rickenbacker.

So I am looking for a vintage lap steel with room on its rear deck for a bender, but I am having a problem finding one, and I would really like to keep the price under $500 or so. Well known brands like Gibson and Rickenbacker are quite expensive.

I found a 50’s Supro that looked like a good candidate, but it only had an inch and a half of available real estate behind the bridge.

I also see that Asher makes an entry level lap steel guitar (Asher Electro Hawaiian Jr.) which looks very good and can be had for $700 or $800 used and it has plenty of room for benders on it.

Does anybody have any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks for your help.

[Chris Harwood]

Certano benders only need an inch, I believe.

[Robert Gardner]

Thanks but I already have the Peters benders, and they are an honest 2". Looks like the Certano benders sit on a one inch foot but the benders themselves stick out over this so the real estate is still limited. But thanks for the suggestion.

[Mike Auman]

Talk to Bob Allen at Melbert Guitars, he has some standard sizes/shapes but can make most anything you want.

[Robert Gardner]

Thanks for the suggestion. Melbert Guitars looks quite nice and their basic model is very affordable.

[Bill McCloskey]

Not much help, but if you are a new player, you might want to think twice about benders. in my experience, they cause a lot of string breakage, are not the easiest instruments to restring, especially in a performance situation and I found they got in the way a lot and it also is pretty hard on your palm.

If you want a pedal steel sound, learn to bend behind the bar or get a real pedal steel. I've only heard one guy or two guys who can really make benders sound good.

My humble opinion is get used to just the lap steel, your bar work, slants, etc without having to deal with benders. Take it for what it's worth

[Robert Gardner]

Thanks very much for the thoughtful comments and advice. I am trying out the benders because they seem like an achievable middle point towards the sound of a pedal steel, which are not only very expensive, but seem to be a fairly formidable challenge to play. I am already a good finger picker and play second guitar and rhythm in a band, on a hollow bodied Gretsch. The lap steel has given us a nice additional texture, but I am not trying to put the lead guitar player out of business.

It is still very much a work of progress to me. I started playing on a 1930 National Tricone square neck, and now trying to get comfortable with the an electric version. I was afraid the benders would be a handicap for my right hand. But so far, it seems pretty doable, at least at my rudimentary level.

Bending behind the bar puts a load on the left hand, and my left hand is already pretty busy and still learning its own job. As you know, this is not an easy process.

So it is very much a work in progress and I am looking to improve the guitar itself, to upgrade to a better instrument. But of course we can’t replace a pedal steel with benders. Nice sound though, when they work, but they are a compromise.

Thanks again.

[Bill McCloskey]

"which are not only very expensive, but seem to be a fairly formidable challenge to play"

you can get a decent pedal steel for not much more than a decent lap steel. As far as the challenge, I started playing pedal steel at age 68, disabled, with 2 knee replacement and all bones in my right foot fused. I love playing every day and would never go back to lap steel. Wish I had started when I was your age.

[Robert Gardner]

Thanks for that thought.

To be honest, there are so many styles of guitars played with a slide—dobros, Weissenborns, regular acoustics with an extended nuts, Tricone Nationals, single cone Nationals, lap steels, lap steels with benders, two or three neck lap steels, entry level (3 pedal?) pedal steels and full monty pedal steels, that it makes my head spin. I mean, it is hard enough to play a standard guitar.

And of course each of these has its own style of music associated with it, bluegrass, blues, Hawaiian, Western Swing, old school country, new school country, country rock, country soft rock, jazz and so on.

So a lap steel with benders seems like a doable project to me, something within reach. If I knew more about pedal steel guitars, perhaps it wouldn't be so intimidating, but I was looking at a used pedal steel on Reverb, and the photograph of the thing from underneath, revealing all the linkages and rods, made my head hurt. So I am afraid I'll have to take it all one step at a time. But thanks for the response.

[Joe A. Roberts]

Benders might be fun to mess with, but I’d second the suggestion to invest in a pedal steel if thats the sound you want; you don’t need anything fancy to start.
The steel without pedals is intrinsically a very different instrument from that with pedals.
Furthermore, there so much great E9th instructional material out there, vs. having to more or less carve your own path with benders (which may not be an issue depending on aptitude and above all dedication).

[Michael Lester]

Robert...Bob Allen is right now in the process of building me a new lap steel designed to accommodate the Peters benders.

[Robert Gardner]

Thanks for the note, Michael. May I ask what roller bridge you are using (or if you are using one)? I thought his guitars looked like a very good value, with excellent pickups.

And may I ask why you decided to pursue the benders on your lap guitar?

[Mark Eaton]

Robert, no idea what Bob Allen is charging for the guitar with benders as mentioned by Michael, but before I even got to the part in your original post where you mentioned Asher, the Electro-Hawaiian Jr. popped into my head. I had one (stolen from the trunk of my car in a break-in five years ago) and I really liked that guitar. And plenty of room for the bender hardware.

[Robert Gardner]

Thanks, Mark. Bob's guitars are about $500. A used Asher Hawaiian Jr. is $700 or $800 used, but they are very nice guitars. And the Asher guitars have plenty of room on the rear deck for benders. Bob said he could extend the back deck of his design to accomidate the benders.

[Michael Lester]

Thanks for the note, Michael. May I ask what roller bridge you are using (or if you are using one)? I thought his guitars looked like a very good value, with excellent pickups.

And may I ask why you decided to pursue the benders on your lap guitar?



Robert...I find myself taking my C6 lap out with me much more often than tearing down my pedal steel, hauling 50 lbs with the case, a big amp, a pac-a-seat, volume pedal, black box, Nux effects pedal... setting it all up ...you get it...

A couple of benders can get passably close to pedal steel for a less formal gathering and all I have to do is unzip a gig bag and plug it into a Positive Grid modeling amp behind a mic to the PA.

I love the sound of the pedal steel. But sometimes it just seems like a lot of physical effort to get to play a handful of songs that really require a pedal steel signature lick or two.

[Michael Lester]

Sorry, I didn't answer your question.

Bob Allen is installing a brass rod nut and bridge on the steel he's building me right now. Should be just fine given that I'm only pulling (no pushing) two strings.

This is what I'm going to experiment with:

G
D > E
C
A > B
G
E
C
A

[Bill McCloskey]

If you want the AB pedal effect of a pedal steel, that raises the 3rd a half tone and the 5th a full tone, so to get that effect on your set up, you might want to try:

G
E -> F#
C# -> D
A
G
E
C#
A

[Joseph Campbell]

I just modified my lap steel for Peters bender. Interesting to find this conversation. FYI I am professional please do not try to modify your guitar like this

[Robert Gardner]

That's very interesting. I had the same thought, some kind of outboard extension to the back of the guitar and figured there was just no way to set up a small block of wood that would withstand the string tension. I guess I was wrong. How is it attached, long bolts?

[Steve Lipsey]

Gretsch Electromatic 5700. Cheap, and extends far enough back to hold benders. I had one...
Don't forget that your right hand will have a hard time learning to use the bender and still block the strings and pick cleanly...I gave up.
Here's an interesting thread here about them...and there are lots more threads...
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtop ... 36475df0eb

[Joseph Campbell]

I used some 3 inch screws and the extension is black walnut. It's very sturdy. But the lap steel was a very inexpensive brand, so I was not worried about it. The benders cost more than the guitar... Lol.

I am getting the hang of the benders. The way I have it tuned it adds an extra layer and depth. I like it so far, just getting the hang of it though. I only completed the mod last week.

You can hear me bending a little yesterday morning.

https://youtu.be/lICgFubWwBI?si=q_IdjMNVkvhw8EKH

[Jack Hanson]

I would agree that if you really want to sound like a pedal steel, get a pedal steel. Benders on a lap steel seem a fool's errand. Very difficult to achieve proper right-hand blocking technique and operate benders at the same time. Similar effects can be achieved by pulling strings behind the bar, and with bar slants.

[Robert Gardner]

I am guessing that the suggestions to get a pedal steel and forget about wasting time with benders are coming from people who already play pedal steel guitars. I imagine this is like guitar players telling ukulele players that their instrument is a waste of time because it only has four strings.

While I appreciate the time and thought folks have given to make this point, and I actually agree that it is a fools errand to think that benders can replicate the sound of a pedal steel, benders do have a fairly long history (Clarence White's B bender on his Tele, for instance) and they do provide notes you can't get otherwise. I think it is a worthy experiment, even if it fails to provide what a pedal steel can provide. Of course, I don't know if that is true yet, but seems like its worth a try.

But thanks to everyone who has replied to my original post.

[Michael Lester]

Robert...as an active player of lap , pedal and 6 and 8 resos, I stand by my previous suggestion that you go ahead with the benders on a lap steel.

Does it sound like a pedal steel? Kinda.

Does it have to sound like a pedal steel to get effects that will add to your music and make playing more exciting??

No.

As I said earlier in this thread, you can have a lot of fun playing memorable music without necessarily having to drag 150lbs of gear around.

[Tom Campbell]

Here's one Bob Allen built for me a few years ago.





I bought the benders from a German company that builds a lap steel...can't remember the name ...very popular brand.