looking for ideas for a tone control

Will Slack · Post by **Will Slack** » 30 Aug 2019 9:22 am

My Fender Dual 8 is just a hair too bright with my new amp (deluxe reverb with bright cap removed and treble all the way down!) I could roll off the tone control on the guitar, but I like using that for the 'boo-wah' sound. I know I could use an EQ pedal, but I am always trying to simplify things and lighten my load. Also, I don't want to alter the amp because it sounds great for other guitars as is. So, I'm looking for suggestions.

Could I potentially make a tone control integrated into a guitar cable? Or a very small, passive box? I could see this just having a small trim pot, or maybe even a fixed value that works for this guitar/amp combo. I have decent soldering skills, so if anyone has a good idea how to design it, I imagine I could put it together.

THANKS.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 30 Aug 2019 10:06 am

Search around here for the Goodrich Match Box that will snap on to your guitar leg. They've been around a long time and often you can pick up one of the early ones for a reasonable price. Just be sure it's one that has the tone control built in.

John Limbach · Post by **John Limbach** » 30 Aug 2019 10:09 am

Check the capacitor in the dual pro. If it's a paper type it's so dried out that it's more of a resistor. Others disagree but my personal philosophy is that, with the exception of mica types, any cap old enough to draw Social Security should be retired on general principles. Replace it with a .047mfd, the modern value for the old .05. If that doesn't help, experiment with changing the value to roll off more highs.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 30 Aug 2019 10:10 am

Jerry has the right idea.

Erv

Steve Vroman · Post by **Steve Vroman** » 30 Aug 2019 10:47 am

I made a small passive box that I put on my pedalboard, it could just as easily be mounted to a leg of my steel(I'm not home or I'd take a picture) It's just a one knob tone control, wired similar to a Telecaster tone control

Will Slack · Post by **Will Slack** » 30 Aug 2019 12:13 pm

Well, the goodrich unit could fit the bill, but I still wonder if there's a smaller DIY option. I'm picturing a box with a 1/4" plug coming out of it, almost like those old dan armstrong orange squeezers, and a 1/4" jack, then like Steve mentioned, just a tele tone control inside.

Oh, and I'll check the capacitor too.

Brooks Montgomery · Post by **Brooks Montgomery** » 30 Aug 2019 2:06 pm

Jerry Overstreet wrote:Search around here for the Goodrich Match Box that will snap on to your guitar leg. They've been around a long time and often you can pick up one of the early ones for a reasonable price. Just be sure it's one that has the tone control built in.

Is the Matchbox an improvement if you play thru a Black Box with the tone knob? Or is it somewhat redundant?

I use a passive (pot) Goodrich pedal.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 30 Aug 2019 2:15 pm

Yes, Brooks. If you are using a Black Box, the Match Box would be redundant and/or unnecessary as you suspected.

Will, if you're knowledgeable about building such things, you could pick up an enclosure like a Hammond 1590A "twinkie" size or a square #1590LB and use it to build a tone control with the proper components. www.tubesandmore.com has an assortment of boxes like these.

Brooks Montgomery · Post by **Brooks Montgomery** » 30 Aug 2019 2:23 pm

Thanks Jerry!

Roman Sonnleitner · Post by **Roman Sonnleitner** » 31 Aug 2019 12:41 am

Just wire up a cable with this:

https://www.neutrik.com/en/product/np2rx-timbre

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 31 Aug 2019 3:58 am

Yes, you could make an inline tone control, or just add a small value cap across the input. I don't know what kind of cables you're using, but you should NOT be using low-capacity cables (like George-Ls) if having too much treble is an issue. The problem you're experiencing can sometimes be eliminated just by using a longer or cheaper cable.

Murray McDowall · Post by **Murray McDowall** » 31 Aug 2019 8:48 pm

Hey Roman, what a great idea!!
I ordered one today.
Many thanks,
Murray.

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 3 Sep 2019 6:59 pm

Most guitar tone controls are first order filters. The biggest problem with any kind of tone control filter is the impedance the tone control sees on the output. Low impedance and the tone control will not work correctly. There are many types of second order filters that work great, but they all need to see really high impedance. The drop off per decade is much greater as the order of the filter goes up. Even a 4th order filter is not that hard to build. Last year I got some great experience building filters for a violin manufacturer who was using different kinds of piezo pickups. It was a difficult job taming the highs. The arrangement had to be special because the piezo pickup had to see high impedance.

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 3 Sep 2019 7:01 pm

Most guitar tone controls are first order filters. The biggest problem with any kind of tone control filter is the impedance the tone control sees on the output. Low impedance and the tone control will not work correctly. There are many types of second order filters that work great, but they all need to see really high impedance. The drop off per decade is much greater as the order of the filter goes up. Even a 4th order filter is not that hard to build. Last year I got some great experience building filters for a violin manufacturer who was using different kinds of piezo pickups. It was a difficult job taming the highs. The arrangement had to be special because the piezo pickup had to see high impedance.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 4 Sep 2019 12:20 am

maybe your solution is right in front of your nose ?

Will Slack · Post by **Will Slack** » 7 Sep 2019 8:56 am

Thanks for the input, everyone. Roman, that product is exactly the kind of thing I was hoping existed. I may have to order one to try out, though I think I have solved the issue another way.

In looking through old posts about the Dual Pro, I found this thread in which the discussion gets to the fact that there were two ways the dual pros were wired up. It seems everyone considers the 'alternate hookup' (as listed here) to be superior. I moved the one wire to change mine to the alternate hookup and it is a great improvement. The guitar is still bright, but the tone knob is so much more useful now. I can do the boo-wah sound and still land the tone knob in pleasant territory. And as an added bonus, I can turn down the vol pot without things getting muddy. This alternate hookup should be standard!

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 7 Sep 2019 11:00 am

That's great Will! Your detective work paid dividends and you don't have to deal with another wart on your guitar leg etc.

I expect others will be following your link for this information for their guitars.

Cartwright Thompson · Post by **Cartwright Thompson** » 8 Sep 2019 9:21 am

You might like a Fender Volume/Tone pedal. Find an old one, the reissues arenâ€™t very good.

Larry Behm · Post by **Larry Behm** » 8 Sep 2019 9:27 am

Do you have an amp designed for steel in addition to the deluxe designed for guitar?

Any graphic EQ pedal should do the job.

Patrick Huey · Post by **Patrick Huey** » 16 Sep 2019 6:50 am

Murray McDowall wrote:Hey Roman, what a great idea!!
I ordered one today.
Many thanks,
Murray.

Murray,
How much was it? I didnâ€™t see prices listed on the site

Patrick Huey · Post by **Patrick Huey** » 16 Sep 2019 6:58 am

Keith Hilton wrote:Most guitar tone controls are first order filters. The biggest problem with any kind of tone control filter is the impedance the tone control sees on the output. Low impedance and the tone control will not work correctly. There are many types of second order filters that work great, but they all need to see really high impedance. The drop off per decade is much greater as the order of the filter goes up. Even a 4th order filter is not that hard to build. Last year I got some great experience building filters for a violin manufacturer who was using different kinds of piezo pickups. It was a difficult job taming the highs. The arrangement had to be special because the piezo pickup had to see high impedance.

Kieth my vote still goes for your original Hilton Digital Sustain box. It has both a gain AND tone control and Iâ€™ve preferred it over the Matchbox by far. I can tame the highs in my pre RP Mullen to perfection and to suit the needs of the song Iâ€™m attempting to butcher and not have to adjust the amp. Buffered circuitry for no signal loss as well. I wish you still made them w/ the tone control knob.

Murray McDowall · Post by **Murray McDowall** » 16 Sep 2019 3:06 pm

Gâ€™Day Patrick,

It works pretty well, and cost AU $30 (30 Aussie dollars).
Turn C/W to cut the highs though, in 4 steps.
Good luck.
Murray.

Marc Jenkins · Post by **Marc Jenkins** » 16 Sep 2019 10:27 pm

Murray McDowall wrote:Gâ€™Day Patrick,

It works pretty well, and cost AU $30 (30 Aussie dollars).
Turn C/W to cut the highs though, in 4 steps.
Good luck.
Murray.

Murray, does it sound approximately like a traditional tone knob at said 4 spots?

Murray McDowall · Post by **Murray McDowall** » 17 Sep 2019 11:14 pm

Yes Patrick, it has a fair bit of treble cut in advancing stages from the second of the four positions of the switch. The first position has no cut at all.
Give it a try, it sounds about right on the second pos with the back C6 neck.
All the best,
Murray.