Transitioning to PSG from non PSG
Moderator: Shoshanah Marohn
- Paul Seager
- Posts: 424
- Joined: 20 Aug 2010 7:41 am
- Location: Augsburg, Germany
Transitioning to PSG from non PSG
I've been thinking about moving from regular steel to PSG for some time and the main de-motivater has been the sheer cost of the PSG. (I've been advised not to waste time on a beginner instrument and go for a D10 from the start) Anyway that itch ain't going away!
So I'm thinking what could I do to prepare myself before shelling out 4k or more? I play a Rickenbacher D8, mainly using A6 right now. Musically I play country but mostly Mavericks-oriented stuff which actually suits A6 quite well. But I'd like to figure out how an E9 works ... without the pedals! I'm thinking of tuning my second neck (rarely used) to the top 8 strings of a PSG E9.
To put this idea into some context, I was watching a YT video where E9 is explained and the presenter played some open string stuff and I immediately heard a lot of country riffs right there. I understand the basic use of the pedals, it's not to distant from (but a darn-sight easier) than slants! The aim is to orientate myself to the tuning.
It's not a great amount of effort to re-string but is there going to be any value in doing this?
\ paul
So I'm thinking what could I do to prepare myself before shelling out 4k or more? I play a Rickenbacher D8, mainly using A6 right now. Musically I play country but mostly Mavericks-oriented stuff which actually suits A6 quite well. But I'd like to figure out how an E9 works ... without the pedals! I'm thinking of tuning my second neck (rarely used) to the top 8 strings of a PSG E9.
To put this idea into some context, I was watching a YT video where E9 is explained and the presenter played some open string stuff and I immediately heard a lot of country riffs right there. I understand the basic use of the pedals, it's not to distant from (but a darn-sight easier) than slants! The aim is to orientate myself to the tuning.
It's not a great amount of effort to re-string but is there going to be any value in doing this?
\ paul
- Jack Stoner
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Another thing for practice. I started on lap steel. Bar handling is different. With pedal steel the accepted correct way is to mute the strings with your right hand and slide the bar to where you want to go, rather than pick up the bar and move it to the next position. That and "palm blocking" were the two items I really had to work on.
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings (all for sale as package)
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- Per Berner
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No need to spend anywhere near 4 K.. Get a good used D10,, They are readily available in super nice condition for 2K or less all the time right on this forum.. If, you're in Europe shipping costs will be your biggest problem I suppose. bob
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time......
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time......
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No need to spend anywhere near 4 K.. Get a good used D10,, They are readily available in super nice condition for 2K or less all the time right on this forum.. If, you're in Europe shipping costs will be your biggest problem I suppose. bob
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time......
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time......
- Bobby Snell
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- Paul Seager
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- Location: Augsburg, Germany
Thanks all for the comments, advice and encouragement. Yes Europe is expensive for a used instrument and those that turn up are worth avoiding. Framus and ABM are often on the market at low prices and anyone that has done research knows why! US built instruments are rarer and hold their value when sold here and the shipping and import costs make you take a step back before ordering overseas.
I considered the single neck. A basic, "beginner instrument" new will be around €1400, and not much less used. A new, made in Germany, WBS will cost €4k for a D10 and that is most likely the route I would go. No half steps, and the loss on investment is not so bad if it doesn't work out.
But heck, I'm going to try the top 8 strings of an E9 on my non pedal and see how it feels!
\ paul
I considered the single neck. A basic, "beginner instrument" new will be around €1400, and not much less used. A new, made in Germany, WBS will cost €4k for a D10 and that is most likely the route I would go. No half steps, and the loss on investment is not so bad if it doesn't work out.
But heck, I'm going to try the top 8 strings of an E9 on my non pedal and see how it feels!
\ paul
- Per Berner
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I would say it would be easier to sell an SD-10 than a D-10 without losing any significant amount of money if you change your mind somewhere down the line, especially here in Europe where there are very few pro players and even fewer who play C6 jazz. I've seen many D-10s in good condition not sell for ages, despite being priced right. The demand for SD-10s is much healthier.
And an SD-10 is easier on your back as well!
And an SD-10 is easier on your back as well!
- Fred Treece
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I started on a lap steel many moons ago. I switched to PSG two years after playing lap. 40 plus years ago. Buy a D10, 8 + 4. E9th and C6. You can find one in great shape for around 2000 to 2500. Watch the forum. Sho Buds or a MSA. Latter model Bud if possible. Been playing Buds for 40 years. Had a Mullen for about 2 years. Was not a Bud.
- Paul Seager
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- Fred Treece
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Yes. SD10 is shorthand for “Single Double 10â€, which, like so many other things about this instrument, only makes sense to steel players. I believe the arm rest is optional, but it seems most SD10’s have them.Paul Seager wrote:Is a SD10 the single neck on a double neck body and an arm-rest?Per Berner wrote:I would say it would be easier to sell an SD-10 than a D-10 ... especially here in Europe
You've definitely not wasted any time learning A6. With A&B pedals engaged plus a knee lever (one of the pretty standard changes) you'l have your familiar A6 on strings 4-9 (plus a high A on 3).
This has got me out of trouble on more than one occasion. If I get lost, I have ny A6 "safety net" until I find my way again.
Almost every single lick you know on A6 can be played on E9.
I'd say start with a good quality S10 to start with instead of the doubleneck route if E9 is what you are mostly interested in. For a given price, you'll get a better S10 than D10.
This has got me out of trouble on more than one occasion. If I get lost, I have ny A6 "safety net" until I find my way again.
Almost every single lick you know on A6 can be played on E9.
I'd say start with a good quality S10 to start with instead of the doubleneck route if E9 is what you are mostly interested in. For a given price, you'll get a better S10 than D10.
- Paul Seager
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Yeah I did notice that in an E9 chart. In fact I have a research task to follow up because it looked to me that E9 is very oriented to the key of A! So much to learn, so little time!Jeff Mead wrote:You've definitely not wasted any time learning A6. With A&B pedals engaged plus a knee lever (one of the pretty standard changes) you'l have your familiar A6 on strings 4-9 (plus a high A on 3).
Anyway, I have restrung my second neck to the top 8 strings of E9 and started applying YT lessons, replicating pedals with slants. It obviously will never sound like a PSG, I accept that but boy, within an hour I realized that non-PSG can be so much fun when you're stimulated! I threw in a couple of new slants at a rehearsal last nights which brought encouraging smiles from my band mates!
Thanks again to you all.
\ paul
Even without slants, you can do some nice stuff using the string pairs 3&5 and 4&6. That high G# string is such a big part of the E9 sound.Paul Seager wrote: Anyway, I have restrung my second neck to the top 8 strings of E9 and started applying YT lessons, replicating pedals with slants.
BTW - although I agree with everyone who says get a decent guitar but if you found a used student model going cheap (that you could probably re-sell for the same price) it would buy you some time until the right one came along (I know it's harder here in Europe to find pedal steels). If you only used the A&B pedals for a few months it would really open things up for you and make the learning curve a bit shallower.
- Bob Hoffnar
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