That JayDee/Emmons tone,,,wow!

Tom Quinn · Post by **Tom Quinn** » 27 Oct 2005 8:32 am

I think skill, creativity and tone all go hand in hand. I was talking primarily about the guitar in the hands of a terrific player, and not the other way around.

I would probably have posted on the "Steel Players" section if I was talking about that.

)

Jim Hankins · Post by **Jim Hankins** » 27 Oct 2005 10:00 am

I see there is a new Chris Hillman CD, does J.D. (or any one else) play "all over" this one ?

Bill Simmons · Post by **Bill Simmons** » 27 Oct 2005 10:18 am

In my opinion, TONE is a big part of the greatness of all players but especially the greats such as Emmons -- Jay Dee -- Lloyd -- Randy -- Brumley -- T. White etc. It's a given they are creative etc, but many will describe their wonderful 'tone' they are getting (probably why so many of us think if we buy the same equipment as the greats, we'll 'sound' like them!-- hasn't worked for me! HA HA

Just the other day, several very gifted players were discussing this subject and the concensus was that "tone" was a major factor(among others mentioned in this post) in what made a player stand out from the rest. They mentioned several players who were extremely gifted (including a couple who are deceased) players but their tone was lacking...just a personal thought, but tone is a big part of a players 'sound'...just a thought.

Jesse Harris · Post by **Jesse Harris** » 27 Oct 2005 12:54 pm

If you want to hear a ton of JayDee's playing on a recent recording, check out mine!!! haha... www.ranchodeluxe.org

It was truly a thrill to produce that session, JayDee's execution is flawless, but on top of that the musical ideas just floored me, so far beyond the steel guitar.

And I nicer guy can't be found

thanks JayDee!!!

Jesse

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 27 Oct 2005 1:38 pm

Tom, I don't want you to think I'm just bustin' your chops here. I think that tone is important, but I just don't think it's the panacea that so many think it is. You did mention "touch", and that's where a portion of the tone comes from, but I just wanted to emphasize that there's many more important aspects of a player's talents than just getting "good tone". The feeling and emotion in the playing, the note selection (voicings), the smooth flow of the left hand, the precise right-hand technique, the manipulation of the pedals, the creativity of the player, and playing in tune, are all just as important, IMHO, in what we hear in the final product. I've heard players say..."Brumley has a great tone", or "Emmons has a great tone", or "Lloyd has a great tone". A great tone in what? All of these players have made drastic changes in their tones, depending on what and when they were playing. Sure, Buddy's always had a fine tone, but what he's done lately bears little similarity, tone-wise, to what he did 40 years ago. The same is true for Lloyd and Tom. Tones change with the times and the player's whim, but their real individuality is found in those other areas I mentioned.

I admit that tone will get you noticed, and it may even become a trademark of certain players, but that's not what really makes them great, IMHO. If you stuck Curly Chalker and Ralph Mooney on the same stage, Ralph's trebly "tone" would get far more attention than Curly's chops. That's not to say Curly had a "bad" tone, or that Ralph was a better player. Curly's tone just wasn't as sharp and "slap you in the face" as Ralph's. I've seen a dozen or more times how a player who sounds like Don Rich could literally "steal the show" from one who sounded like Chet Atkins. Of course, we all know who was really the more accomplished player!

Another thing that amazes me is how many steelers will ask a famous player..."How did you set your amp on so-and-so?" Do you really think how the amp was set got the player his job? Do you really think that how the amp was set made it a great intro or a memorable ride? If you do, then I think you're missing something, something mighty significant...the overall skills of the player.

And believe me, it goes a lot deeper than just his "tone".

Peace.

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 27 October 2005 at 02:41 PM.][This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 28 October 2005 at 07:10 AM.]

Charles Curtis · Post by **Charles Curtis** » 27 Oct 2005 2:34 pm

A good friend of mine told me many years ago that you have to, "develop a touch". Of course I'll never develop the touch or skill level he has, (aint't got enough time), but it's an echo from the past.

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 27 Oct 2005 5:49 pm

I believe tone is a personal thing for each player. Every steel player I've ever met had there own tone and touch. There's so many different factors that figure into a persons tone. Good equipment plays a big part also.

Gary Walker · Post by **Gary Walker** » 27 Oct 2005 10:01 pm

Yes, Jay Dee does have that touch in his hands, but I also know he has tried several different brands of steels, names we would all know, but he still keeps going back to what he believes, is the clear cut winner. You can rest assure, if he finds an ax that has his total tone with today's technology, he may be persuaded to make a change. (The key word here is "IF")

Steve Dodson · Post by **Steve Dodson** » 27 Oct 2005 11:10 pm

Gary you are right. But I don't think it will ever happen.

Tom Quinn · Post by **Tom Quinn** » 28 Oct 2005 6:17 am

Yup...

Steve Dodson · Post by **Steve Dodson** » 28 Oct 2005 7:51 am

Gosh, I always thought that if you had good TONE. All the other key elements had done been developed.

Steven Welborn · Post by **Steven Welborn** » 7 Nov 2005 11:18 pm

Jesse, Rancho Deluxe sounds cool. I hope you guys come play Ventura or near abouts sometime. Anyone play steel for your live gigs?

Klaus Caprani · Post by **Klaus Caprani** » 8 Nov 2005 1:49 am

I will have to give "tone" and the selection of what to play greater attention than the technical side of it in order to have gigs and sessions.

I go to Paul Franklins website and see a picture of young Paul featured on a national TV show. I think he's 12 years old or something like that on that photo.

I started steel at 43, and there's NO possible way that I could ever catch up with anything like that in my lifetime, so I will have to settle for "the right notes at the right time" approach and try to achieve to "sound good".
I'll probably never record a Pedal Steel instrumental either.

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Klaus Caprani

MCI RangeXpander S-10 3x4
www.klauscaprani.com

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 9 Nov 2005 9:11 am

Gosh, I always thought that if you had good TONE. All the other key elements had done been developed.

IMHO, this just isn't true. I can think of dozens of times I've heard a short phrase played by an unknown steeler, and made the snap decision (based on the player's "tone") that it was Emmons (or some other famous steeler). Then, after continuing to listen, I come to the conclusion that..."No, that's certainly not Buddy". The "tone" was there, but after extended listening, the technique and touch, those intricacies that make Buddy "Buddy" just weren't evident.

Did Lloyd have the same "tone" when he played for Warner Mack as he did when he played for Charlie Pride?

No, not hardly!

Charles Turpin · Post by **Charles Turpin** » 9 Nov 2005 1:02 pm

I never realy understand why people try to identify people by there tone. Just like Gary Morris picked a lot on George Straits albums not seeing the album to me that sounds like Buddy Emmons then i hear gary Morris on the new song of Dirks Bentlys hey that is ralph Mooney. But no that is Gary Morris recording that. We are all ourselves regardless. Since i have played steel for 20 years I have learned to develope my own style of playing licks , intros , or endings instrumentals I am not some else so why copy there tone. Hey it sounds just like that record well hey that was someone else playing that not me. I think we all have to be ourself. J.D on his tone and whether he wants to play an old guitar or a new guitar that is part of J.D.And it is wonderful and J>D> is an outstanding player. That is what he wants to create on. To me touch and tone and thinking is that personal part of that person. When i first started playing i was shown 5 different ways to play the same lick one time. The different strings the lick was played on made different tones to the same lick. But each different steel player would have his pick on how to play that lick. For example i wouldn't play that lick maybe like anyone on this form. That would create my tone not anyone elses. Just like I have seen a many questions on Paul Franklins recording of " Im in love with you baby but i don't even know your name," of Alan Jacksons. I seen the middle part somewhere on the form i think it was Rickies sight. But I already had that one down. However it was the same thing Paul Played only in diferent positions and diferent strings. I tried That one tabbed out and I couldnt even begin to learn it. But i did break it down and learn new licks from the solo that he had tabbed out. by breaking it down. However back to the point the point is the way i did it. Was my own personal way of doing it getting my own tones yet i was still doing Pauls solo. I bet if you put the same song in front of other pro players, neither one would play the exact solo Paul did. Cause of there tone. the way they think and the way they have learned to play and the things they have developed by practice.Over there years of playing.

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Tom Quinn · Post by **Tom Quinn** » 9 Nov 2005 7:54 pm

What Charles said... This thread started with JayDee and Emmons guitars... two items that are linked in my mind... :- )

Man, I LOVE pedal steel and boy howdy, it's only the beginning for this instrument. I think 50 years form now, heck 100 years, people will still be talking about the "source" players, and the "source" guitars... "that boy sounds just like Buddy on the black album!" "Man don't that sound just like a push/pull?" Stuff like that... -L-

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 10 Nov 2005 6:13 pm

I played JD's 69 Emmons in Santa Rosa ,calif, where he was taking over the Buck Owens seat of Tom Brumley.

It was during intermission and the amp was on, so I sat down and played some of my old big band tunes on his C6. And Wow, what a guitar! In 69 I was impressed. Tommy Cass has it right, JD had that guitar playing so smooth and the tone was so great that I fell for it.

I didn't know where to get one then. Since then, I have had about 3 PP's and I sold them all because, I couldn't keep them up to snuff like JD did his and tom Cass can probably do as I have heard.
Jd and I have coresponded and he is not only a great player but an all around great guy....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/