| Author |
Topic: If I Wanted To Get Rich Building Pedal Steel Guitars |
Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 6:48 pm |
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| J R Rose wrote: |
| Hope I have not offended anyone here with my thoughts, that's all they are, is thoughts. Just hoping for the best to come for the steel guitar. |
J.R., I don't think you will have offended anyone with your thoughts here. I do think that part of the problem with the declining popularity of steel guitar is that it became too closely connected to just two styles of music (Country, and Hawaiian) - in fact, so much so, that for a long period of time, the steel guitar defined those two musical styles. And, by having all its eggs in just two baskets, it fell victim to the declining popularity of those styles of music in the mass market. (Well, something "called" country is still being played to large numbers of people but we all know that is much less connected to steel guitars nowadays.)
Where I'm heading with this is that, for the steel guitar to survive, it needs to be seen as a musical instrument (like a piano or guitar or violin) that can be played in any type of music, not just country or Hawaiian. For us to hope that steel guitar will return to popularity because classic country will have a comeback is very much a longshot. We can't stay stuck in our roots, we have to grow outward and be seen and heard in ALL types of music. That's how steel guitar will remain an active part of the musical scene, even if it fades from country music.
Players like the Campbell Brothers, Robert Randolph, Mike Perlowin, Mike Neer, Susan Alcorn, Dave Easley and a few others I'm forgetting right now (sorry) are establishing beachfronts in other genres but it will take others to pick up on it, follow up and extend further, for a real presence to develop in these other genres. (Actually, there is a very strong presence already in the sacred steel world, with younger players coming up all the time.)
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www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Rich Upright
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 7:16 pm
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| Mitch Ellis wrote: |
| David Mitchell wrote: |
Think a pedal steel is hard to learn? Ever picked up a violin/fiddle and tried to learn to play it?
You'll spend two years driving everyone nuts with it.
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Or in my case, more.  Before it will sound right, you have to become skilled with the fiddle, which has no frets, AND the bow, which if not handled correctly, will ruin all of your skills with the fiddle. And vise-versa. As for trying to learn how to play one, I refer to the fiddle as a two foot headache. I gave up. I'll stick to the pedal steel guitar.
Mitch |
Same here. Tried it; dunno how anyone can get anything out of that thing.
_________________
A couple D-10s,some vintage guitars & amps, & lotsa junk in the gig bag. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 7:19 pm
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| Rich Upright wrote: |
| Same here. Tried it; dunno how anyone can get anything out of that thing. |
It helps if you're 5 years old... before anyone tells you how hard it is to play, you just DO it! LOL. True dat.
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www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Jon Zimmerman
From:
California, USA
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 8:20 pm Authentic innovation
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One thing here, guys, is that I hope my comments have NOT dampened any enthusiasm for the very machine we all have an obsession toward. I too have an ideal in mind of a perfectly in tune, easy effort to operate, snag-free n clam resistant moh-sheen...that would be what to have in a perfect world. One other thing is: we are a nation of innovation, not so much of replication...and my wish for us all is to see a machine built to do all the mechanical functions of a modern pedal guitar you sit behind, but put into a format that's played in the lap..maybe self-corrected tuning, servo directed up/down string pulls...whatever the mind imagines, digitally cooked-up n reliably AUTHENTIC Emmons, or MSA, Sho Bud, Infinity, et all..tone perfect AND feather weight!
Can an American do that at some future place? I sure as sh** hope so! |
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Per Berner
From:
Skovde, Sweden
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Posted 9 Aug 2017 11:20 pm
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| J R Rose wrote: |
| I say again that teenagers are what buy the most records, cd's, DVD's, etc. Always have, always will. |
Years ago music and going to the movies was more or less what was available for teens, these days there are many other distractions. They don't care so much about music anymore – and they certainly aren't willing to pay for it. The vast majority of them want and expect everything for free, with instant gratification and no effort. Taking time to learn a complicated instrument, when you can sample something off the internet (or play a stupid game on a "smart" phone)? Don't think so. Teens don't buy CDs and DVDs (noone under 50 does these days), they don't even know what they look like...
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BTW, if there really is a huge untapped potential for steel guitar among 6-string players, everyone would already be playing lap steel – those have been available very cheaply for decades. But very few buy them.
So, I'm afraid pedal steel will likely continue to be a marginal thing for the select few with unusual musical preferences, along with accordions, xylophones, tubas and countless other instruments. And I bet 6-string guitars are next in line, just you wait and see. The decline has already begun. |
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J R Rose
From:
Keota, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 10 Aug 2017 7:44 am
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Yes, Per Berner you are correct. Teens today do live a different life style. They seem to be born with a SMART PHONE in their hand. I see some that cannot even eat without it in their hand. It is an addiction like you cannot believe. Maybe if we piped in country music on it they would listen, ha! My Son & Grandsons,(3 grand's) have all been raised with country music and like it but like other sounds better I guess. Have no desire to learn anything on the steel yet they have been around it all their life. Not just me but pickers that played really well. They are all very smart and play the guitar some but the steel never caught their attention. I guess it is the same for others? I dare say this but their are not many places to pick in the state of Oklahoma due to MADD. When I was a teenager here in Central Oklahoma their was a joint with live music every ten miles. Not anymore but for many different reasons. Times have changed. Us old timers do not like change. But when we pass on will their be country music at all?? I have a large collection of LP's and CD's that my kids could care less about. Oh well, It will be what it is. My Prayer is that the Steel Guitar survives. The Lord tells us to make music upon an Instrument of Ten Strings. Blessings to all, J.R. Rose
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NOTHING..Sold it all. J.R. Rose |
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James Wolf
From:
Georgia
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Posted 10 Aug 2017 9:59 am
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| Kinda like the Carter Starter? |
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Jon Zimmerman
From:
California, USA
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Posted 10 Aug 2017 10:08 am
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(HEY! YOU KIDS! GET OFFA MY LAWN!!!)[/quote]
JC- Most young''ns don't see where they walk when staring
down at the "smart phones"...cause=effect. |
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Don R Brown
From:
Rochester, New York, USA
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Posted 10 Aug 2017 5:42 pm
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| Rich Upright wrote: |
Not sure if I want more people to get into steel. There ain't enough work for us now, and there ain't too many of us.
Imagine if the number of steelers were only HALF the number of guitar players? Forget that gig this weekend. |
About once a month there's a thread on here about another venue closing, another big name musician going without steel, how hard it is to find work even for experienced players. The demand is shrinking but the proposal is to increase the supply? Why steel guitars instead of flip phones, or typewriters, or film cameras?
OP says the majority of 6-string players have an interest in pedal steel. I find that many people DO have a casual interest in sitting down once and coaxing a few notes just to slide the bar and mash the pedals. But as far as a desire to buy one and learn it themself, no way.
I suggest before anyone goes out and has 30,000 pedal steels made, you first go out and buy or rent a big warehouse, because you're going to be needing one for a LONG time to come. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 10 Aug 2017 7:17 pm
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| Quote: |
| ...before anyone goes out and has 30,000 pedal steels made, you first go out and buy or rent a big warehouse, because you're going to be needing one for a LONG time to come. |
I agree, Don. I think we will eventually reach a tipping point where non-pedal steel will return and be more popular than pedal steel. In the past 60 years we have seen the pedal steel evolve into a complicated, very expensive machine that average people (and even most musicians) don't understand and don't care to. I think lap steels will always be around because they are simpler (less complicated) instruments and the average person can relate to them. They see a player with a simple board on his lap, sliding a bar on the strings. That's pretty basic and understandable for most people. Sometimes with pedal steel, the viewers/listeners are not quite sure what's happening. There are foot pedals, knee levers, legs, like a keyboard. How many times has someone come up and asked you what that instrument is you're playing? Or told you "you play good keyboard" or synthesizer, or slide? On my lap steel gigs no one has ever asked me what instrument I'm playing. It's obvious to most viewers.
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My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
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Rich Upright
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 10 Aug 2017 7:40 pm
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" Or told you "you play good keyboard" or synthesizer, or slide?"
MAN that drives me up a wall!
Or the one that really gets to me is when they call it "steel pedal"!
_________________
A couple D-10s,some vintage guitars & amps, & lotsa junk in the gig bag. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 10 Aug 2017 7:46 pm
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| Rich Upright wrote: |
" Or told you "you play good keyboard" or synthesizer, or slide?"
MAN that drives me up a wall!
Or the one that really gets to me is when they call it "steel pedal"! |
or "petal steel"...?
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2017 7:40 am
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When people ask me what I'm playing, I tell them it's a product of genetic engineering: A combination Singer sewing machine and an electric cheese slicer.  |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 11 Aug 2017 3:23 pm
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| Quote: |
| OP says the majority of 6-string players have an interest in pedal steel. I find that many people DO have a casual interest in sitting down once and coaxing a few notes just to slide the bar and mash the pedals. But as far as a desire to buy one and learn it themself, no way. |
In my 46 years of playing, I have played with at least a hundred different guitar players. If I had to break down the numbers, it would probably be:
1) 15 really interested in learning and buying one.
2) 6 who bought one.
3) The rest like it but have no interest in playing.
I think this whole thing is ridiculous.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 11 Aug 2017 3:26 pm
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| Jim Cohen wrote: |
| Rich Upright wrote: |
" Or told you "you play good keyboard" or synthesizer, or slide?"
MAN that drives me up a wall!
Or the one that really gets to me is when they call it "steel pedal"! |
or "petal steel"...? |
Or that steel table slidy thingie. Had a woman tell me that one time.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Jim Fogarty
From:
Phila, Pa, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2017 5:12 pm
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| Doug Beaumier wrote: |
| When I was a youngster one of my friends asked... "What is that sickening whine in County Music?" |
Did you tell him "That's the sound of the musicians, asking for their pay".
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Karl Paulsen
From:
Chicago
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Posted 16 Aug 2017 5:42 pm
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I was talking with a buddy of mine and we felt that an electronic pedal steel is probably the way to make an imported PSG affordably and to remove the maintenance issues that can be a barrier to entry. Consider that Line 6 already makes Variaz electric guitars that can credibly sound like a wide range of guitar types and can digitally even change tunings, and that these guitars can be had for 8 bills.
-Start with somethign that looks like a 10 string lap steel. Not hard to do. The input and hardware already exists in line 6, you'd just have to make it for 10 strings and work some new software.
-Add a 3 pedal board based on an electric piano pedal.
-The new part would be developing 4 knee lever controlers that would screw onto something like an electric drum stand, but that wouldn't be too hard either.
The whole package would probably start at $1000 or more, but consider the fact that it woult have virtually no necessity or learning curve for maintenance, and changing the copedents would be just the matter of selecting a new program.
On a different tack, just to address this...
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Will it kill the business of present steel makers. No! It won't kill the business of high quality handmade pedal steels any more than Epiphones kill Gibson or Squiers kill Fender.
No more than mass produced Chinese violins kill handmade Italian violins |
Imported Chinese stringed instruments have gotten very good and HAVE damaged domestic sales. The builder/repairer/rental shop that my brother used as a kid went out of business a couple years ago. Chinese instruments kept getting better and better and customers were not willing to pay alot more for a domestic instrument that was only a little better than a well made chinese instrument. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2017 7:43 am
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| They're making cars that drive themselves, maybe a time will come where pedal steel guitars PLAY themselves. Joy, oh, joy! |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2017 9:24 am
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How about the free Bubble up and the Rainbow stew?  |
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tim duvall
From:
greensburg,pa,usa
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Posted 17 Aug 2017 12:14 pm
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| airplanes can already fly by themselves. There is a joke inside the airline industry that the only reason the crew is on there is for highjackings. |
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