Different bars for E9, C6?

Drew Pierce · Post by **Drew Pierce** » 1 Sep 2015 4:57 pm

I've been playing around with an old Dunlop 12-string bar lately that I used long ago and finding it really sounds good on the E9 neck of my Emmons push pull. But I also notice that the same bar doesn't sound as good on the C6 neck as the 15/16 10-string BJS bar that I've been using regularly for the last few years. Both bars weigh about the same, but the Dunlop is longer and thinner, while the BJS is shorter and fatter. Without getting into a brand name shootout, has anybody noticed that the two necks on a double 10 may work better with different tone bars?

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 2 Sep 2015 2:40 am

No, but I have noticed some geometries work better with certain styles.
Not by which neck, but by what I'm playing.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 2 Sep 2015 4:32 am

I've never considered a different bar for each tuning. If one bar is good enough for the "pros" such as Buddy, Herby, Paul, etc it is good enough for me.

There are differences in tone depending on the metal composition and surface. The BJS bars are chrome plated. I don't think the Dunlop is. I notice a slight difference in tone between my BJS (chrome plated) and Bullet bar (stainless steel).

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 2 Sep 2015 7:42 am

I just like the feel and sound of a zirc bar.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 2 Sep 2015 9:45 am

i'd stick with the bjs bar. it may just take getting a little more familiar with the c6 neck.

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 2 Sep 2015 9:47 am

The two necks sound different for physical as well as musical reasons. Question is, do you want to celebrate the difference or iron it out?

[Now having seen Chris's post I would add that it took me longer to get a C6 sound I enjoyed]

Drew Pierce · Post by **Drew Pierce** » 2 Sep 2015 12:36 pm

I've been using the BJS bar for the last four or five years. Before the other day, I'd never used anything but the same bar on both necks for the last forty years or so. Never even thought of it. But the two necks have very different tonal and physical characteristics, so it's not such a wild notion that they might have different bar requirements for optimal performance.

To be more precise, to my ears, the larger diameter BJS bar sounds a bit fatter, which works great on the C6 but tends to sound a bit muddy on the E9. The slimmer Dunlop, OTOH, sounds a little cleaner and clearer on the E9, but doesn't really rock the C6 like the BJS does.

John Boogerd · Post by **John Boogerd** » 2 Sep 2015 12:40 pm

Erv Niehaus wrote:I just like the feel and sound of a zirc bar.

Me too. I really like the zirc bar another member has loaned me. It sounds good and it feels good.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 2 Sep 2015 1:38 pm

John,
In this cold north country where I live, it feels a lot warmer in my hand that a steel bar.

Don Sulesky · Post by **Don Sulesky** » 4 Sep 2015 5:32 am

I love my Bullet Bars.
I have 5 of them.
I used to use the BJS bar and just the other day I tested my 15/16" Bullet Bar vs. my 15/16" BJS bar
and noticed right away that the Bullet Bar's tone was stronger and brighter and had more sustain.
Case closed for me.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 4 Sep 2015 5:54 am

All other factors being equal, I find that a smaller bar tends to sound cleaner, to me, and more "focused" than a larger bar. I suspect this has something to do with the larger diameter bar having a larger string-contact area. Lately, I've found that overall sound is more important than sustain, so I use my larger bars less frequently.

Don Sulesky · Post by **Don Sulesky** » 4 Sep 2015 6:05 am

Donny
I find what you say to be true.
My 7/8" Bullet bars also out match my 7/8" BJS bar.
I have talked to Jim Burden(Bullet Bars) about this at one of our FSGC jams and he explained to me the
high quality SS he uses which is very hard to machine which gives the high quality tone.
All my bars are the same weight as I have them bored out.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 4 Sep 2015 6:16 am

Using a different bar for different necks on the same guitar sounds like an absurd waste of time. I like to use various bars but the neck I use them on makes no difference at all to me.

Btw, both theDunlop and BJS bars are chromed. The Dunlop is crappy chromed and the BJS is perfectly chromed.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 4 Sep 2015 12:38 pm

Ian Rae wrote:The two necks sound different for physical as well as musical reasons. Question is, do you want to celebrate the difference or iron it out?

In my experience I have found that there is no difference in tone between the the E9 or C6 necks on any steel I have ever owned or played. The range and intervalic relationships are different but the tone/sound is the same.

Bo Borland · Post by **Bo Borland** » 4 Sep 2015 1:12 pm

yes

I don't want my C neck to sound like my E neck and as E said, a Zirc bar removes a little zing ...

sure I could make changes at the amp but I don't want to in a live situation .. I even use different bars for different songs ..different amps too..

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 4 Sep 2015 1:56 pm

But how accessable is it to buy a zirc bar? Are they making them again?

Bo Borland · Post by **Bo Borland** » 4 Sep 2015 2:38 pm

I don't know Richard.. It was VERY expensive for a tone bar but I think it was worth it.

Tommy Shown · Post by **Tommy Shown** » 4 Sep 2015 6:46 pm

I tried a 3/4 inch bar. But for the sustain and mellower tone. I recently upgraded to a 1 inch bar. I have noticed for years the pros using a one inch bar. Jim Lindsey told me, about the size bar. I have never used one size bar for one neck and another size for the other. Not only Jim but Hal Higgins also taught me about intonation. Intonation when executed properly will give you the proper tone and sustain you need. Hal told me in order to get good tone it is in the way you control the bar. And the way you attack the strings with you picks. Along with proper bar placement. is all that matters. And that is when you place the bar on the strings, you place the bar over the fret line on the neck. Steel guitar is like playing violin, on violin you could move your finger, on the neck by 1/1000 of an inch either waym and you could be sharp or flat. Same thing with the bar. You can move the bar the same off of the fret line on the neck. And your tone would be sharp and flat.

Jimmy Gibson · Post by **Jimmy Gibson** » 5 Sep 2015 12:30 am

I have been using the same 1"dia bar for over 40 years on both necks, sounds great it has Dekley stamped on the flat end.

Jimmy..

W. Van Horn · Post by **W. Van Horn** » 5 Sep 2015 6:55 am

I agree with Bob - seems like a waste of effort.
However, while I don't think the necks sound different from each other inherently, the difference in string gauges does produce a different tone on the same note. As in, if both necks were tuned the same they would sound the same, but with the back neck being lower there is a different tone than the front neck on the same notes. It is one reason I prefer a d10.

W. Van Horn · Post by **W. Van Horn** » 5 Sep 2015 6:57 am

Also I can't stand the Dunlop bars. The mids are a little weak as well as the highs - perhaps you like that sound on your front neck? Do you feel it has too much bite with the bjs?