Notorious Byrd Brothers

Will Houston · Post by **Will Houston** » 3 Jul 2011 8:33 am

Hey Chip I don't know enough about arpegios and sus 4 and all that stuff to chime in but I do know that NBB and these songs have always been some of my favorites. Crosby was on some of the songs.I always thought that was steel on WBTF.
I've been waiting for you to post a Byrds thing again they always seem to draw alot of responses. Way to go Chipper!!!

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 3 Jul 2011 9:07 am

Thanks Will...

You've been a good friend over the years.

And for everyone else - WE all have a collective mind here; even if it is for the BYRDS.

OK - update! I just emailed Roger the Dodger.

I'm very sure he's a busy man, and so I said that to him; and politely as I could, asked him to respond at his earliest convienence. I also included the URL for this topic in my email.

Just gonna sit back and wait, drink a little wine, and inebriate the 4th of July.

Cheers All

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 3 Jul 2011 9:20 am

Another quality of "Change Is Now". The Mcguinn-Irish touch again - so background and essential in Byrd's music - the drone. Bagpipes. It's just lovely and hypnotic. Roger always had that feel. So soothing; even in a rock format.

Most of CIN is basically ONE chord. Especially the instrumental break. Just incredible. Who would ever think to write a song with 1 or 2 chords. It's a modern chant or gospel. It's haunting and unbelieveable.

Analyze this song; but not to death. I think it's a masterpiece. and JMHO

Alright - I'm really gonna go away now. Happy?

Shawn Brown · Post by **Shawn Brown** » 3 Jul 2011 10:17 am

Thanks for startng this topic and for these posts. Some good insights to a great song off a great album.

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 3 Jul 2011 11:26 am

I saw the Byrds in Binghamton, NY, either late '67 or early '68. Hard to remember because I was most likely stoned, still and all, I have a special affinity for them and that period of music. Oh, and I bought my first 2 steel guitars from Red.

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 3 Jul 2011 12:22 pm

I'm too young to have seen them back in those days, but I sure used to get stoned while listening to that album (along with Younger Than Yesterday, Ballad Of Easy Rider, Sweetheart Of The Rodeo, Untitled...) in the late '80s. Nobody I knew at the time was into that kind of music... That, among other stuff from the same period (like Flying Burrito Bros., International Submarine Band, Gram Parsons and the Fallen Angels) was also where my interest in the pedal steel started.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 3 Jul 2011 12:40 pm

OK - anymore questions?

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 3 Jul 2011 12:45 pm

Joerg, I guess I must be older than you. I had a chance to see their latest incarnation at a Festival in Frankfurt in 1970. I still have two pictures I took there, of McGuinn in my photo album, 'though they're not very good because I forgot to adjust my camera.
He was even clowning around when he noticed that I took his picture. I'm guessing that was the occasion when Clarence bought the sticker of the Stadtwappen he stuck on his guitar.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 3 Jul 2011 3:21 pm

All right gang.

With all due respect to Roger, he provided only half of the answer.

Brint, I'll acquiesece.

Pedal steel opens the song, and then Clarence.

Anyway, it's just a great song.

If you were to go to some club and hear the band do this song [properly], it would drive you nuts. In a good way.
Around these parts?------fuhgettaboutit. It ain't gonna happen.

....but it was never like this. Western Mass used to be a hot-spot for excellent Country. Doug Beaumier, Jim Smith, Buzz Evans, Sammy Gibson, Jimmy Sampson - all these dudes played here and showed me what they had. I'm forever in debt to them.

These guys can play.

Peer Desmense · Post by **Peer Desmense** » 3 Jul 2011 11:02 pm

Byrd band members could often easily be recognised just by their personal way of playing or simply by their instrument.
You can't miss Rogers 12 string, nor can you miss clarence's way of playing. The first 4 Byrds albums were a good example of this. Same was applyable for the voices: very distinguishable.
Come NBB things get more difficult and I think there were lot of studio musicians involved: Crosby however sings many harmonies here and you can here him! Clearly there's pedalsteel: us steelguitarists hear this!
Then Drug store truck driving man. Now I really get confused. When is it Clarence plauing and when is it the pedal steel...
Byrds were very succesfull here in Holland. Made many of us consider to start playing pedalsteel.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 4 Jul 2011 5:06 am

Absolutely, Peer...

Not sure who played steel on DrugstoreTDM. May have been Lloyd Green.

"DTDM" was on "Dr Byrds and Mr Hyde". I think it came out before "Sweetheart Of The Rodeo".

I could never figure out why the Byrds didn't get to play at the original Woodstock (1969).

Joan Baez was there, and did a great job on "DTDM" as only she can,

Peer Desmense · Post by **Peer Desmense** » 4 Jul 2011 5:50 am

Well Chip, considering the fact that on sweetheart, Chris was still playing bass and mandolin, Gram joined and gave us Hickory wind: then Chris and Gram started the FBB, so at that time, Dr Byrd and mr Hyde followed without Chris/ Gram, but in came Clarence and other personel: I'm not sure exactly who, but I AM sure that Sweetheart was sooner than dr Byrds.
Not important though, for me the whole Byrds story is a fabulous one: never cared much for Beatles/ Stones etc.: bit this beautiful Byrds and family music (Hollies too) got me playing pedalsteel: I was a young man and I simply got the goosepumps evry time I heared that wondefull instrument. My friends got crazy when I played airsteel (just like people nowadays play airguitar): I allready did that back then!

If (when) you ever see Roger, be sure to menrion this story to him, so he knows that he had a tremendous influence here in Holland.
Thanks.

Greetings Peer

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 4 Jul 2011 6:05 am

'Airsteel' - I like that. That's a good one Peer.
I'm sure your pals must have said, "Oh yeah, it was only a matter of time, but he's gone now. He went over the edge."

When I posed the question to Roger about the intro to WBTF, I of course included the URL to this very topic, and said to him that he oughta check it out.

I mentioned he and the Byrds, the FBBs, and all and every incarnation of the same are constantly discussed on the SGF.

I don't wish to pester the man, but I'm almost 100% sure he's checked us out. I know if someone pointed out that I was the topic of discussion somewhere, that I would indeed check it out.

We're all still human, you know.

Will Houston · Post by **Will Houston** » 4 Jul 2011 7:34 am

Hey Chip, maybe the Byrds didn't play Woodstock because they were going thru so many changes personal wise that they didn't really have a set band to show up.Just a thought.
FBB played the Altamont fiasco.

Peer Desmense · Post by **Peer Desmense** » 4 Jul 2011 7:42 am

The Byrds did play a Dutch festival in Rotterdam called Kralingen. (Youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIFplonFHT8)
and they were the band that really made the festival here! This was after woodstock of course.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 4 Jul 2011 7:45 am

Good point, Will - I never thought of that, but that makes a lot sense.

By 1969 the Byrds were not only well-seasoned musicians, but well-seasoned boxers, too.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 4 Jul 2011 9:37 am

what did roger have against the name 'jim'?

when people change their name i always assume it has to do with a religious cult or something.

Joe Goldmark · Post by **Joe Goldmark** » 4 Jul 2011 10:25 am

I have a couple of opinions for "Change Is Now." First I'm pretty sure they used "backwards guitar" loops for some of the solo tracks. It's possible it was a steel but I think they ran the tracks backwards to get that effect. Second, I doubt if that is a steel on the intro. It sounds like a guitar, and it's pretty obvious when Red comes in on the bridge. His tone and execution sounds a lot different there than on the intro.

Joe

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 4 Jul 2011 10:26 am

I have read about the reasons for his name change in the sixies in a Hit Parader article. He mentioned that he joined a group (sect) called Subud(?) and they gave him the name Roger.
Here's good old Elvis Costello with McGuinn and McCartney in the song "Veronica" (audio only):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp_YI30jhv8

Stephen LeBlanc · Post by **Stephen LeBlanc** » 4 Jul 2011 11:17 am

fwiw...I just listened to "Wasn't Born to Follow" again mostly just for enjoyment's sake.

I am completely convinced there is no Steel on this recording, the bend licks are Clarence (or someone) playing his Tele with a b-bender or whatever.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 4 Jul 2011 1:19 pm

It's not the bend licks that are steel, it's the steady fingerpicking roll that runs through the song except for the instrumental break. It re-enters with the vocal at 1:30, after the instrumental break. Unless I have my computer speakers backwards, it's in the left channel mainly, with Clarence on the right.

Steve Hitsman · Post by **Steve Hitsman** » 4 Jul 2011 1:36 pm

I played "WBTF" with a band not too long ago and did the rolls on my steel... they lay out fine. I also did the interlude with a phase shifter.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 4 Jul 2011 2:01 pm

Joe G., I tend to agree. According to their book, "So You Want To Be A Rock n' Roll Star?, the author mentions many times where the Byrds (Roger in particular) really pulled-off some amazing studio wizardry.

Of all their albums, NBBs, is probably the pinnacle of that wizardry.

Peer Desmense · Post by **Peer Desmense** » 5 Jul 2011 7:56 am

I have a 4cd box (With airplane titles e.g. Full Throttle etc) with Byrds history and a beautifull booklet included. This booklet gives enough info about band members/contributors and Red Rhodes is surely mentioned in WBTF and Going Back.
Meanwhile I remember that Lloyd Green came that close to being a band member...during the sweetheart period.
Sneaky played I trust and more on that strange silver album called The Byrds after the Untitled double.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 5 Jul 2011 8:43 am

I think that 'strange' album was called "Byrdmaniax".

And it was strange.