Song Stylists Lacking Today
Moderators: Dave Mudgett, Janice Brooks
- John P. Phillips
- Posts: 2532
- Joined: 20 Oct 2000 12:01 am
- Location: Folkston, Ga. U.S.A., R.I.P.
- Contact:
Song Stylists Lacking Today
Watched an interview on the tube this morning featuring Tanya Tucker and one of her comments raised a question in my mind. She said that there were very few song stylists these days.Not like singers of the past who were good stylists as well as good singers. It got me to thinking that this is something I haven't seen discussed here on the forum. And I think she's right ! It seems to be strangely missing today. That may be a contributing factor in the songs of today not sticking in our memory as well as the classic songs do. Am I nitpicking here or does this seem like a valid observation ? What is your take on this question. How do you feel about stylists in todays music ? Would it help today's artists. Does all the hype like fancy light shows, smoke bombs, ragged dress and all the rest just bury the music so far in the background that it is overlooked in today's "Money Market"?
What's your opinion ?
What's your opinion ?
- Earnest Bovine
- Posts: 8318
- Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
- Location: Los Angeles CA USA
- Barry Blackwood
- Posts: 7352
- Joined: 20 Apr 2005 12:01 am
- Jeff Evans
- Posts: 1618
- Joined: 4 Apr 1999 1:01 am
- Location: Cowtown and The Bill Cox Outfit
- Contact:
Shopping for ragged dresses
I make all my own . . . all in one colour; all in one size.... ragged dress ...
On the crux of the topic, does overstatement and hyper-emoting constitute a style?
Bare: If GB offers you 100Gs to sit through "Shamus" for four months, what will your answer be?... devolving - case in point - the return of Garth Brooks.
- Rick Campbell
- Posts: 4283
- Joined: 8 May 2006 12:01 am
- Location: Sneedville, TN, USA
I agree 100%. I've come to believe that there is basically two styles in today's country music: Male and Female. Like them or not: Buck, Willie, Johnny Cash, Ernie Ashworth, Paycheck, Loretta, Connie, Patsy, Conway, Del, Merle, etc... had very distinct styles. I don't hear that in today's singers. I have noticed that almost every new country song has a 6 minor in it. I guess maybe that's some kind of new protocol.
Once again I find myself rising to the bait offered by my erudite friend, Earnest Bovine (who, I'm sure, just says stuff to get a rise outta people). I don't think that a stylist is necessarily one who can not, if he/she wanted to, perform in any other manner than the one you've heard them use on recordings. Some are very accomplished in a variety of styles of delivery, but they are also savvy enough, in a marketing sense, to know that differentiation in the marketplace is (or at least used to be!) important for commercial success.
Earnest, you're still a curmudgeon ('not that there's anything wrong with that').
Earnest, you're still a curmudgeon ('not that there's anything wrong with that').
-
- Posts: 21192
- Joined: 16 Feb 1999 1:01 am
- Location: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
- Earnest Bovine
- Posts: 8318
- Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
- Location: Los Angeles CA USA
- Marc Friedland
- Posts: 1042
- Joined: 26 Jan 1999 1:01 am
- Location: Fort Collins, CO
- Contact:
I can appreciate J C’s point of view, but feel I’m closer to E B’s line of thinking though I admit there may be exceptions to the rule.
Some times a singer doesn’t have the most enjoyable voice to listen to and/or perhaps he/she doesn’t have the best control over their intonation, but may have a very interesting delivery or engaging personality that comes through when they sing that makes a listener say yes, I enjoy listening to them sing, they’re entertaining.
I would typically call this person a stylist as compared to a singer or vocalist. Now that I think about it, this could also apply to musicians playing instruments, not just singers. Though I apply a definition to differentiate between a singer and a stylist or an instrumentalist and a stylist, it’s not my intention to assign a value judgment, saying one type of entertainer is more valuable than another.
Marc
Some times a singer doesn’t have the most enjoyable voice to listen to and/or perhaps he/she doesn’t have the best control over their intonation, but may have a very interesting delivery or engaging personality that comes through when they sing that makes a listener say yes, I enjoy listening to them sing, they’re entertaining.
I would typically call this person a stylist as compared to a singer or vocalist. Now that I think about it, this could also apply to musicians playing instruments, not just singers. Though I apply a definition to differentiate between a singer and a stylist or an instrumentalist and a stylist, it’s not my intention to assign a value judgment, saying one type of entertainer is more valuable than another.
Marc
- Rick Campbell
- Posts: 4283
- Joined: 8 May 2006 12:01 am
- Location: Sneedville, TN, USA
I think Garth is already putting a band together with twin fiddles and steel guitar. He's going to come out all traditional country style with a lot of shuffles and ballads. Sort of a new Ray Price, Johnny Bush, Mel Tillis sound....... and that's when I woke up.Barry Blackwood wrote:John, I agree, and I don't think you're nitpicking. The music business keeps devolving - case in point - the return of Garth Brooks.
- Dave Mudgett
- Moderator
- Posts: 9648
- Joined: 16 Jul 2004 12:01 am
- Location: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
I'm with Jim Cohen on this. A stylist is not necessarily limited, and a versatile and technically excellent singer is not necessarily 'phony' if he or she decides to focus on one style and add their stylistic thing to it. My favorite example is Screamin' Jay Hawkins - he had an really fine operatic voice with excellent range and control, but generally preferred to stick to his extremely stylistic rock and roll schtick.
Sinatra and Pavarotti were certainly singers of a particular style - I think it would have been tough for either to convincingly sing in many styles like hillbilly or gutbucket blues. But as far as being limited - let me just say that I wouldn't mind having that kind of vocal 'limitation'.
This thread is a good example of how far people are apart on musical issues - one group laments the lack of stylists, and another argues that the term stylist is a non-complimentary euphemism.
I personally also lament the lack of stylistic strength in modern singing. To me, technical singing excellence and stylistic tendencies are orthogonal to each other. One can be technically excellent and stylistic, one or the other, or neither. The only one I don't care for is neither.
My opinions, of course.
Sinatra and Pavarotti were certainly singers of a particular style - I think it would have been tough for either to convincingly sing in many styles like hillbilly or gutbucket blues. But as far as being limited - let me just say that I wouldn't mind having that kind of vocal 'limitation'.
This thread is a good example of how far people are apart on musical issues - one group laments the lack of stylists, and another argues that the term stylist is a non-complimentary euphemism.
I personally also lament the lack of stylistic strength in modern singing. To me, technical singing excellence and stylistic tendencies are orthogonal to each other. One can be technically excellent and stylistic, one or the other, or neither. The only one I don't care for is neither.
My opinions, of course.
- Barry Blackwood
- Posts: 7352
- Joined: 20 Apr 2005 12:01 am
- Rick Campbell
- Posts: 4283
- Joined: 8 May 2006 12:01 am
- Location: Sneedville, TN, USA
I think "Shamus" is that cloth you use to wash your car. I saw it on TV. Anyway, the 100Gs sounds attractive, but would we be required to stay sober?Barry Blackwood wrote:Jeff, I don't know what "Shamus" is, but for that kind of green, I'd most likely say yes anyway.If GB offers you 100Gs to sit through "Shamus" for four months, what will your answer be?
Also, well said, Mark F.
I sure there are people we could call stylists, but was Johnny Cash called a stylist, or any of the early ones? I think then is was called the sound. He had a unique sound.
For me, that's the crux of it. All the singers must fit within the confines of the mold.
Let's bring back the different kind of country voices and let them rise or fall by our vote, not the record companys.
For me, that's the crux of it. All the singers must fit within the confines of the mold.
Let's bring back the different kind of country voices and let them rise or fall by our vote, not the record companys.
heavily medicated for your safety
-
- Posts: 7055
- Joined: 12 Apr 2000 12:01 am
- Location: Magnolia,Texas, R.I.P.
- Contact:
- Chris LeDrew
- Posts: 6404
- Joined: 27 May 2005 12:01 am
- Location: Canada
Re: Shopping for ragged dresses
Yes.....it's called Conway Twitty:Jeff Evans wrote: On the crux of the topic, does overstatement and hyper-emoting constitute a style?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67GSo3Mx ... re=related
Last edited by Chris LeDrew on 17 Oct 2009 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com
Web: www.chrisledrew.com
- Chris LeDrew
- Posts: 6404
- Joined: 27 May 2005 12:01 am
- Location: Canada
Naaa......Rick Campbell wrote: I have noticed that almost every new country song has a 6 minor in it. I guess maybe that's some kind of new protocol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxQbvSjQy9A
Nothing changes but our perception.
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com
Web: www.chrisledrew.com
- Walter Stettner
- Posts: 5744
- Joined: 21 Nov 2003 1:01 am
- Location: Vienna, Austria
- Contact:
Ask yourself a simple question: How many of yesterday's country stars with unique voices would get a chance to start a career these days?
Kitty Wells, Roy Acuff, Bill Anderson, Skeeter Davis, Hank Snow, ET, Dolly Parton, Willie Nelson and many more - they had (have) unique voices that wouldn't fit in today's uniform pattern well enough to give them chance, nevertheless, they are "heroes" who are celebrated in special radio and TV programs and are listed as major influences by many of today's stars...
Kind Regards, Walter
Kitty Wells, Roy Acuff, Bill Anderson, Skeeter Davis, Hank Snow, ET, Dolly Parton, Willie Nelson and many more - they had (have) unique voices that wouldn't fit in today's uniform pattern well enough to give them chance, nevertheless, they are "heroes" who are celebrated in special radio and TV programs and are listed as major influences by many of today's stars...
Kind Regards, Walter
- Rick Campbell
- Posts: 4283
- Joined: 8 May 2006 12:01 am
- Location: Sneedville, TN, USA
I don't think talent and style has as much to do with success today as it did in the past. So many of the singers sound alike now, and some are huge stars, while others not so much, or not at all.
It used to be that most all records got some airplay and if people liked them and requested to hear them again, they became popular. Nowdays, only the songs chosen by the major labels ever get a shot at FM radio. I guess there's a lot more material being recorded now than before.
I think it's all in the promotion and marketing, and of course how much money they want to put into it. I believe the industry could make Elmer Fudd or Donald Duck into a country singing star, if they wanted to.
It's akin to the fashion styles. I remember when my mother and sister couldn't wait until the new JC Penny's and Sears catalogs came in the mail so they could see what kind of clothing was going to be in style for the season. Nevermind what you like,.....it all about what you're told you're supposed to like, in order to be cool. Kind of the tail wagging the dog.
We all know great singers that will never make it into stardom because they don't have the backing of the industry. I don't know if it's right or wrong, but I do believe that's pretty much the way it is.
It used to be that most all records got some airplay and if people liked them and requested to hear them again, they became popular. Nowdays, only the songs chosen by the major labels ever get a shot at FM radio. I guess there's a lot more material being recorded now than before.
I think it's all in the promotion and marketing, and of course how much money they want to put into it. I believe the industry could make Elmer Fudd or Donald Duck into a country singing star, if they wanted to.
It's akin to the fashion styles. I remember when my mother and sister couldn't wait until the new JC Penny's and Sears catalogs came in the mail so they could see what kind of clothing was going to be in style for the season. Nevermind what you like,.....it all about what you're told you're supposed to like, in order to be cool. Kind of the tail wagging the dog.
We all know great singers that will never make it into stardom because they don't have the backing of the industry. I don't know if it's right or wrong, but I do believe that's pretty much the way it is.
- James Cann
- Posts: 1651
- Joined: 27 Sep 2004 12:01 am
- Location: Phoenix, AZ
Ain't it the truth!--and if that weren't enough, the formulaic jingoism in so many lyrics is laughable: all this prideful emoting about the hard life, homegrown front porch harmony, momma and daddy, church and chicken on Sunday, farm-bred morality, homesickness for all of it, etc., etc., by singers who have little or no real connection to it. However, don't they ever latch onto the schtik because what else do they have?I honestly can't believe that all the southern/country accents I hear these days are real.
-
- Posts: 6870
- Joined: 27 Nov 2000 1:01 am
- Location: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
- Contact:
Ernest Bovine, "You could say that a "stylist" is someone who can't do it any other way, even if he tried;"
Earnest, I respect you and your talent, but, you can't really believe what you said! Chalker and others who were stylist's did it both ways in order to make a living.
What you are saying is: "Those who can do it play, but, those who can't, teach.....a belife that is not verified by analysis.
Earnest, I respect you and your talent, but, you can't really believe what you said! Chalker and others who were stylist's did it both ways in order to make a living.
What you are saying is: "Those who can do it play, but, those who can't, teach.....a belife that is not verified by analysis.
- Joachim Kettner
- Posts: 7523
- Joined: 14 Apr 2009 1:57 pm
- Location: Germany
-
- Posts: 1882
- Joined: 2 Oct 2006 12:01 am
- Location: R.I.P., Buena Park, California
- Contact:
IMHO I consider a good vocalist as someone who pretty much sings on the beat and you can anticipate when to play fills. What I consider a type of stylist is when they sing and phrase ahead of or behind the beat, finally catching up. It makes it harder to figure when to play fills. You can either leave a big empty spot or clash with them playing at the same time they finally decide to complete or delay a phrase.
- Joe Miraglia
- Posts: 1607
- Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
- Location: Jamestown N.Y.
Donny Hinson wrote:I honestly can't believe that all the southern/country accents I hear these days are real. I've been listening to country music for over a half-century, and believe me, there weren't even this many "drawls and "y'alls" back in the days of Kitty, Hank, Loretta, and Webb.
I think what I said to a young male singer the other day is true. You are a good singer,and writing some good songs,but you will have a very hard time making it in Nashville,or in country music coming from the North. I can,t name anyone from the North that has made it big in country music.I think some people think that country music is a southern thing. Joe
- Rick Campbell
- Posts: 4283
- Joined: 8 May 2006 12:01 am
- Location: Sneedville, TN, USA
Joe, that's a good point. I can't think of anyone either, but there has to be some. Patsy Cline was from Winchester, VA, that's about as far north as I can think of right now, but that's a far cry from NY, and New England.Joe Miraglia wrote:Donny Hinson wrote:I honestly can't believe that all the southern/country accents I hear these days are real. I've been listening to country music for over a half-century, and believe me, there weren't even this many "drawls and "y'alls" back in the days of Kitty, Hank, Loretta, and Webb.
I think what I said to a young male singer the other day is true. You are a good singer,and writing some good songs,but you will have a very hard time making it in Nashville,or in country music coming from the North. I can,t name anyone from the North that has made it big in country music.I think some people think that country music is a southern thing. Joe
I don't know where Kid Rock and Darius Rucker are from, they might blow your theory all to pieces.
Someone please tell us some country stars that were from up north. This is a good subject.
NOTE: I started another thread regarding this. Please respond there.