60-cycle Hum

Chris Battis · Post by **Chris Battis** » 12 Oct 2009 6:49 am

I'm just starting out, so please forgive my ignorance.
I recently got a beautiful old Supro Supreme to learn on, but we live in a 100 year-old farmhouse with ancient wiring and the 60-cycle hum I get when I try to play is overpowering.

I took my guitar and amp to a neighbor's house with wiring that's up to code and everything checked out perfectly, with no trace of hum. Rewiring our house to make my guitar sound ok isn't a real possibility, so there anything else that might remedy this situation?

Chris

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 12 Oct 2009 8:21 am

Chris Battis wrote:I'm just starting out, so please forgive my ignorance.
I recently got a beautiful old Supro Supreme to learn on, but we live in a 100 year-old farmhouse with ancient wiring and the 60-cycle hum I get when I try to play is overpowering.

I took my guitar and amp to a neighbor's house with wiring that's up to code and everything checked out perfectly, with no trace of hum. Rewiring our house to make my guitar sound ok isn't a real possibility, so there anything else that might remedy this situation?

Chris

Yes. Teach it the words and maybe it will sing.
Just kidding, Chris.

You might get a small battery powered amp for practicing, until you can do the rewiring.

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 12 Oct 2009 9:24 am

When at home, you're not per chance sitting with your guitar really close to the amp?

Tom Pettingill · Post by **Tom Pettingill** » 12 Oct 2009 9:24 am

In an older house, it might be wise to get one of these cheap socket testers to see if the ground and polarity is correct.

Beyond that, look for some of the more troublesome noise makers, it may be that the age of the wiring is not the problem. Things like computer monitors, florescent and neon lights, wall warts, door bell and thermostat transformers, and various electrical appliances can generate a lot of noise.
Also proximity to the electrical service mains / fuse box can be noisy. Is the noise less in other parts of the house?

Todd Weger · Post by **Todd Weger** » 12 Oct 2009 9:31 am

I'm curious about this question, too.

I'm having the same issues with my old '38 Epiphone. The p'up has gone somewhat microphonic, but part of the great tone with that lapsteel is the little bit of p'up noise, so I don't want to mess with that.

I do notice that I get a bad hum in some venues, however. I did play an outdoor event the other day though, and the sound company was VERY professional. I noticed on that gig -- NO HUM from my Epi! Would that maybe be that they used some kind of power or line conditioners? I don't know for a fact if they had Furman boxes or what, but it was the best stage sound I had ever gotten, and not having that hum was a real pleasure.

Thanks.

Chris Battis · Post by **Chris Battis** » 12 Oct 2009 9:41 am

Tom Pettingill wrote:In an older house, it might be wise to get one of these cheap socket testers to see if the ground and polarity is correct.

Beyond that, look for some of the more troublesome noise makers, it may be that the age of the wiring is not the problem. Things like computer monitors, florescent and neon lights, wall warts, door bell and thermostat transformers, and various electrical appliances can generate a lot of noise.
Also proximity to the electrical service mains / fuse box can be noisy. Is the noise less in other parts of
the house?

Thanks. The socket tester seems like a good place to start. After that, I'll see if there's some add-on like a line conditioner I can use. If that doesn't work, I know an electrician who can do the work (for $$), or perhaps I'll just take the Supro to my neighbor's house when I want to practice.

Chris

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 12 Oct 2009 11:11 am

Houses that have flurecent(sp?) tubes installed in a shop or kitchen area.........can rasise all kinds of H___!

Also, wall mounted light DIMMER SWITCHES........are also notorious for NOISE.

Lynn Oliver · Post by **Lynn Oliver** » 12 Oct 2009 11:30 am

SCR's (dimmer switches) tend to cause problems higher than 60 Hz, as do modern fluorescent tubes. The advice from the old Scruggs book to tune to the fluorescent light hum is mostly obsolete now.

I've had good luck with my Hum-X, so that is something you might want to look at. As suggested above you might also try different outlets throughout the house to see if you can localize the problem.

Pro sound guys often run their own power from the main box, so that they have a solid ground and just as important, everything has the same ground. Rather than rewire your house, you might ask your electrician to run one good circuit for you.

Kekoa Blanchet · Post by **Kekoa Blanchet** » 12 Oct 2009 3:03 pm

Does your house have 2-prong outlets, while your neighbor has 3-prong outlets? That third wire (the ground) can make a difference. If that's the problem, an electrician might be able to install a grounded outlet for your amp without too much expense.

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 12 Oct 2009 9:46 pm

Ceiling fans are also a culprit for noise. Checking the outlets would be the first thing I would think.
A grounded outlet like mentioned, would be a good idea anyway.

Clete Ritta · Post by **Clete Ritta** » 13 Oct 2009 5:05 am

Is the amp power plug 3 prong? Is the guitar pickup single coil? Older amps often had a +/- polarity and float (ground lift) 3-way toggle on the back. Is the power in the house 3 prong? Besides all the other noise factors mentioned, you might try a 3 prong to two prong (ground lift) adaptor. Not the safest thing in a lightning storm, but may help. You can reverse polarity by reversing the plug and adaptor in the wall socket. Do you get an "antenna" type noise which fluctuates as the guitar position is altered? Even in recording studios, I swivel around to find the quietest position before tracking.
Clete

Chris Battis · Post by **Chris Battis** » 13 Oct 2009 5:18 am

Thanks, everyone. There are lots of promising leads here that I'll be eliminating one by one as time allows. No ceiling fan, dimmers or fluorescent lights here, but many other potential culprits.

I've begun by ordering a Hum-X, since installing one of those in is well within the scope of my technical abilities, and a new jack plug for the guitar. While I'm waiting for the electrician to call me back, the next step will be putting some copper shielding tape in the p/u cavity.

Thanks again,
Chris

Todd Weger · Post by **Todd Weger** » 13 Oct 2009 5:19 am

Lynn Oliver wrote:I've had good luck with my Hum-X, so that is something you might want to look at.

Lynn - Does the Hum-X effect your tone at all, or does it just get rid of that annoying 60-cycle hum, and leave your tone intact? Man, if that thing works, I'm dropping the $70 for one today! I've been be-deviled with ground loop hum for too long.

Thanks,
TJW

Lynn Oliver · Post by **Lynn Oliver** » 13 Oct 2009 8:32 am

The Hum-X goes between the AC outlet and the amp's power plug, so it doesn't affect tone at all.

Jim Mathis · Post by **Jim Mathis** » 13 Oct 2009 12:17 pm

The polarity is probably switched in your house. They didn't pay much attention to those things in the old days. The circuit tester should tell you that. Assuming you have a 2-prong plug on your amp, trying turning the plug over.

I rewired my old '50s Fender Princeton with a grounded 3-prong cord and haven't had any more hum or "shocking" problems.

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 13 Oct 2009 1:36 pm

This should really be in Electronics rather than Steel Without Pedals.

Chris Battis · Post by **Chris Battis** » 13 Oct 2009 1:43 pm

Who knew?...

Chris

Alan Kirk · Post by **Alan Kirk** » 14 Oct 2009 6:49 am

I use the Electro-Harmonix Hum DeBugger. Yes, it changes the sound a bit; but in some cases that is preferable to the nasty, ugly, unmusical hum. Makes single coils usable in a bad hum environment.

Brick Spieth · Post by **Brick Spieth** » 14 Oct 2009 3:53 pm

I lived in an older house once that had a hum. I solved it in one location (garage) by getting a three into two converter with a tab on it. I soldered a wire to the tab and ran the other end to a cold water pipe where I attached it with a pipe clamp. Instant ground for about fifty cents.

Casey Lowmiller · Post by **Casey Lowmiller** » 14 Oct 2009 6:53 pm

Chris,

If you go to Wal-Mart, back in the electronics section, you should be able to find very small power conditioners for flat screen tv's.

They are sleek designed, feature 2 outlets on them and have 2 lights on them. One shows that it is working & smoothing out the power/protecting it from surges. The other shows you if the outlet is grounded properly.

If you get lucky, they might even have these on sale for about $2. That's what I paid...and I bought a bunch.

They work like a charm. I live in a very old house with very crappy wiring. Turns out, the outlet that I plug most of amps into...isn't grounded and makes every amp noisey.

Hope this helps,

Casey

Zach Keele · Post by **Zach Keele** » 14 Oct 2009 7:39 pm

You could also just ground the plug you use for playing. Either have an electrician or do it yourself. Run a copper wire from the ground terminal on the plug to a piece of rebarb driven deep in the ground. Not a big deal, it will also prevent you from being the ground.

Chris Battis · Post by **Chris Battis** » 16 Oct 2009 5:28 am

Tom Pettingill wrote:In an older house, it might be wise to get one of these cheap socket testers to see if the ground and polarity is correct.

I got one of those little socket testers yesterday at Home Depot and found one outlet in our kitchen that was wired correctly, probably by accident. There was no hum at all when I plugged the amp into that one and I can work on grounding other outlets as time permits. Thanks for all your informed suggestions, everyone!

Chris

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 17 Oct 2009 12:16 pm

60 cycles is the AC frequency of most countries that use 110 volts, as in the USA. In other parts of the world that use 230/250 volts the AC frequency is 50 cycles. I wonder if the same problem that you have would be at 50 cycles outside the USA.

By the way, any electrical device which uses a timing device linked to mains voltage will go out-of-time if you use it in a country with a different frequency. For instance, I brought an electric clock with me from England that worked on 240 volts. If you plug it in over here, using a voltage converter, it runs fast. I guess this is why most clocks use a battery, or convert the AC down to low voltage DC. You don't see many mains-operated clocks any more.

I don't suppose this will help your problem, but it's an interest phenomenon.

The Steel Guitar Forum

60-cycle Hum

60-cycle Hum

Re: 60-cycle Hum

Just curious................

Me, too...

An afterthought......................

Hum-X?