Carter Starter Upgrades?

JD Mahaffey · Post by **JD Mahaffey** » 27 May 2009 6:47 am

Hello all,

I own an older Carter Starter and have a few questions about possibly upgrading this thing.

1. At this point in my fledgling PSG career I rarely use my rkl and rkr. I am also obsessed with the franklin change. is there anyway I could mod either one of those knee levers to have the franklin change? As I understood it the changer is 'set' in some way.... I dont quite understand the workings of the underside although I am trying to learn.

2. How difficult is it to change out the pickup on a starter? also any suggestions on what kind of pup i should change to? any for sale?

im sure the answer is 'buy a new steel, dude' but i figured I'd ask to see if there is anything I can do in the meantime while I'm saving for that new guitar.

Thanks

JD

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 27 May 2009 11:57 am

JD

i'm not trying to give you a smart a$$ answer
but instead spending your time trying to reconfigure the guitar,
your time would be better spent learning to use the right knee's

Rick Winfield · Post by **Rick Winfield** » 27 May 2009 12:49 pm

You are correct sir:
"buy a new steel, dude"
get a used pro model, minimum 3x4
rick

Michael Pierce · Post by **Michael Pierce** » 27 May 2009 1:06 pm

JD.

The problem with reconfiguring the knee levers is that you'd likely seriously compromise the resale value of the Starter. I've owned two and was able to sell each for pretty close to what I paid for them. In terms of an upgraded pick-up, my steel teacher swapped out a George L10-1 for the stock CS pickup and, in my view, it did improve the sound. If you're looking for a relatively inexpensive alternative, you might look at the Magnum SD-10 on the "Instruments for Sale" page. Looks like a nice one for a very reasonable price. http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=159344

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 27 May 2009 4:34 pm

I would not try to modify the starter or change the pickup. Practice more and your tone will improve. For the Franklin change I would just figure out how it works and learn how do it with bar moves. Save up for a better steel down the road.

Bryan Daste · Post by **Bryan Daste** » 27 May 2009 4:40 pm

I had a Carter Starter for awhile with a George L's E-66 pickup in it. You just have to break or grind off the mounting tabs, then use double-sided mounting tape (the kind with a little layer of foam) to mount. It definitely helped the tone. I gigged with that thing for two years before upgrading!

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 27 May 2009 5:20 pm

Ricks,right. DYKBC.

Ben Rubright · Post by **Ben Rubright** » 28 May 2009 2:33 am

Well, I have gone against the rules, I guess. The 1/2 step lowering of the 5th string (RKL) is less important to me than the lowering of the 6th string since I can back off 1 fret and use LKL (raise 4 & 8)and the B pedal to get the 5th string 1/2 step lower. Therefore, I cut a slot in the plate at the changer for string 6 and 'closed up' the slot for string 5, moved the pull of 5 to pull string 6 (I flopped the pull rod around at so that it goes into the bell crank from the opposite side to better align with the string 6 hole at the changer.) I moved the spring from 5 to 6 and, voila, it is there. Also, it is all reversable should I ever sell it to anyone that wishes to have it back the way that it was.

We spend the summers at a campground in PA and I take the Carter Starter along as my campground steel and I wished to have my knee levers on it like my other guitars. My only gripe is the very LONG travel of LKR to lower 4 & 8.

Ben Rubright · Post by **Ben Rubright** » 28 May 2009 2:42 am

I guess one thing that I should have said is that the change that I made was indeed rather simple in that both were lowers and involved adjacent strings. With the bell cranks welded on, etc, etc, anything more complicated is pretty impossible without major surgery. It is pretty clear that the Carter Starter was designed to prevent modification which is understandable since Carter is in the business of selling their professional models as well.

JD Mahaffey · Post by **JD Mahaffey** » 28 May 2009 8:16 am

Calvin Walley wrote:JD

i'm not trying to give you a smart a$$ answer
but instead spending your time trying to reconfigure the guitar,
your time would be better spent learning to use the right knee's

Guess I should have phrased my question better....
NOT saying I'll never learn to use my right knee levers, I am in the process of that now... More of a theoretical question of IF I wanted to modify my starer is that possible....

JD Mahaffey · Post by **JD Mahaffey** » 28 May 2009 8:18 am

Ben,

Good to know you can tweak the starters a little bit if you got the time and patience! I know that a new steel is gonna be the answer to my needs. but it's also good to know i can play around with the carters settings to some extent if i decide to keep it as a back up.

Thanks!

JD Mahaffey · Post by **JD Mahaffey** » 28 May 2009 8:22 am

Bob Hoffnar wrote:I would not try to modify the starter or change the pickup. Practice more and your tone will improve. For the Franklin change I would just figure out how it works and learn how do it with bar moves. Save up for a better steel down the road.

Thanks for the advice bob, my playing definitely is not at the level where the carter is holding me back. hahah. I'm interested in the bar moves though, I am able to recognize the franklin change when i hear it insongs now and I love that sound! I'm gonna try and figure it out w/o mangling my carter

Thanks!

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 28 May 2009 8:33 am

There's always a way to tweak a steel if you have some mechanical ability. I've seen Sho-Bud Mavericks with 4 knees... and it is your guitar, so the choice is in having it your way, or keeping it easily re-saleable.

I'd lean toward the camp of learning everything you can with that guitar, then moving on, rather than changing much on it. I think that's really what they're made for!
One easy mod I would definitely do- one of the knees, I forget which, uses a round-head phillips screw in the cabinet as the "positive" stop. With the lateral play in the knee mechanism, if the bottom of the knee lever slips even fractionally on that screw, it will slip to the side causing too much lever travel, and further wearing the knee bracket. It's a simple fix to remove that screw and substitute a flat piece of aluminum the same thickness, held on with two smaller screws, for a solid flat bearing surface for the lever stop. Makes a big difference.
The pickups really are cheesy, I'd probably replace that and keep the original for resale time.
Otherwise, great guitars to learn on, and when you do
move on to a more pro guitar, you'll be in a position to really appreciate the tonal and mechanical upgrade.

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 28 May 2009 8:38 am

And on the Franklin change, I've always really liked the sound and possibilities of that change, and before putting it on a guitar I messed around with bar movement to work at it (although the moving tones of the change within chords are it's greatest beauty.)
Eventually I put it on a guitar, and while I use it very frequently, I'd still estimate it's incorporated in maybe only 5% of my playing, if that...

Greg Wisecup · Post by **Greg Wisecup** » 29 May 2009 7:59 am

Is this tone bad considering the price of the guitar?
I don't think so.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa849ZUO9jA

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 29 May 2009 1:01 pm

I bought a starter for rehearsal space.
It sounded fine, but the left knee levers were terrible. Five more bucks spent in manufacturing and design would have double the guitars value, IMHO. JP

Paul Redmond · Post by **Paul Redmond** » 29 May 2009 11:35 pm

Jim - I solved that problem by inserting nylon "pads" into the "flipper" where they contact the "flipper" for the cross-shafts. It knocked out 90% of the friction and the awful "grating" of soft metal against soft metal. The problem is, that most guys/gals don't have a milling machine at their disposal.
As for the KL stop screw, it can be replaced with a flathead screw instead of the round head. The flat plate suggested is actually the best alternative.
The George L's 10-1 will most definitely "fatten" the sound of the guitar and IMO is a good choice...brings out the lower end a lot better.
The welded-on/brazed-on cranks can be bent to better align them with their pulls on the changer end. Sometimes you can actually switch shafts within the guitar to your advantage, say, moving the E-changes to the right knee instead of the left. Bending the cranks for better alignment only changes their pull ratios slightly and the benefits outweigh the negatives even though it will look a bit crude.
When slotting out the "restrictor plate" on the right end, use care in cutting the slot/slots so that they aren't cut crooked or oversize. If done properly, the guitar will function well without side-binding in those slots.
PRR

Kyler Burke · Post by **Kyler Burke** » 6 Nov 2020 9:21 pm

Today I built a arm rest for my Carter Starter. It's 4" deep and made with chestnut brown "tooled leather" vinyl or faux leather. It only takes two small drilled holes into the end plates to mount, which already have holes drilled for mounting the plates to the cabinet. If anybody is interested I have the material for another and may also be making some in black. Sold colors available too.

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Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 7 Nov 2020 1:55 am

You can switch crossshafts to accommodate Day style and move the E changes to the right knee as Paul said,
but there is no accommodation that will allow the Franklin change in a Starter.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 7 Nov 2020 6:07 am

Because this thread had been resurrected, I'll resurrect this link to what the Carter Starter sounds like in the hands of a really great player! (Terry Crisp)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT1TvjnlYHM

Greg Milton · Post by **Greg Milton** » 7 Nov 2020 7:42 pm

Donny Hinson wrote:Because this thread had been resurrected, I'll resurrect this link to what the Carter Starter sounds like in the hands of a really great player! (Terry Crisp)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT1TvjnlYHM

Nice one, Donny!

Kyler Burke · Post by **Kyler Burke** » 22 Nov 2020 2:45 pm

This is a minor visual enhancement but I bought aluminum Corning moulding at Home Depot (1/2" x 1/2" x 96") and cut it to fit the two upper corners of the cabinet. I think it looks better this way than with the butted-up edges of mica laminate tops and it's more durable too. Cost about $10.

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Carter Starter Upgrades?

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