Which Tone Bar for Mellower Tone?

Daniel Jones · Post by **Daniel Jones** » 3 Oct 2007 6:15 pm

I play jazz standards a lot and am searching for a tone bar that would be less metallic and mellower, more in the direction of a hollow-body jazz guitar tone (I realize this isn't fully possible, but in that direction) and still have decent sustain. Does the Black Phoenix or that synthetic stone bar (forgot the name) give a tone in the mellower direction? Any other suggestions?

Thanks.

Rick Abbott · Post by **Rick Abbott** » 3 Oct 2007 7:05 pm

Pyrex or glass??

Rick Abbott · Post by **Rick Abbott** » 3 Oct 2007 7:19 pm

Ground or flat wound strings? Slightly lowering the pickup? Effects or tube pre-amp?

Rick Abbott · Post by **Rick Abbott** » 3 Oct 2007 7:19 pm

Ground or flat wound strings? Slightly lowering the pickup? Effects or tube pre-amp?

Rick Abbott · Post by **Rick Abbott** » 3 Oct 2007 7:19 pm

Ground or flat wound strings? Slightly lowering the pickup? Effects or tube pre-amp?

Rick Abbott · Post by **Rick Abbott** » 3 Oct 2007 7:21 pm

I must be filling out too many forms in triplicate! 1000 pardons!!

Bob Tuttle · Post by **Bob Tuttle** » 3 Oct 2007 7:55 pm

The Red Rajah bar has a slightly mellower sound. It's not a drastic difference, but it's noticeable.

Roger Shackelton · Post by **Roger Shackelton** » 3 Oct 2007 8:50 pm

Perhaps a white Delrin bar would give you the tone you want.???

Marco Schouten · Post by **Marco Schouten** » 3 Oct 2007 9:57 pm

I have a Johnson thumb pick, it gives a more mellow tone.
I bought it from Frenchy's.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 4 Oct 2007 2:20 am

if you're looking for a mellower tone, you might consider getting a used late 70s MSA maple/lacquer guitar. These guitars have a much mellower sound than an Emmons or Sho-Bud. In fact, their mellower tone is one of the reasons they are not more popular in Nashville, despite having superior mechanics.

If you listen to the recordings of Curly Chalker and Reece Anderson you can hear what these guitars sound like.

Two things though. Make sure it is the maple/lacquer guitar and not the earlier mica finish guitar which has a different sound, and you'll probably want to replace the pickup with a better one. I have a George L 5 position in mine. (The one in my avatar)

Michael Pierce · Post by **Michael Pierce** » 4 Oct 2007 2:31 am

Check out the Boyett Glass bars at

http://rickalexander.com/BigSteel/BoyettGlassBars.html

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 4 Oct 2007 5:33 am

My Groovey (same finish as the Black Phoenix) is a little more mellow than a steel bar. I like it.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 4 Oct 2007 6:56 am

When I used to play a lot of Hawaiian music on a lap steel, I used a plastic bar.
When I got a Match-bro from Goodrich, it came with a plastic bar.
This type of bar will give you a more mellow and softer sound.

Jim Bates · Post by **Jim Bates** » 4 Oct 2007 9:21 am

Another factor in the tone, especailly the attack, can be mellowed by using brass finger picks. Also, cut back the presence and treble, plus turn off the reverb and delays completely on your amp.

A lighter bar, whether chrome plated, stainless or a plastic / glass material will cut back on sustain and some bass. I have a custom made 7/8" dia brass bar, hollowed out that works to 'smooth out' the string noise. Any good bar maker mentioned in the Forum could probably make a brass bar to your specs.

Thanx,
Jim

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 4 Oct 2007 4:57 pm

I'm surprised no one has mentioned simply playing closer to the center of the string.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 4 Oct 2007 6:40 pm

I've bought many different bars over the years. The most recent one I received came in a plastic tube. When I tried the plastic tube container as a bar it sounded better than the $80 bar inside !

About 50 years ago my grandfather turned down some maple on a lathe to make my mother and her sister a tool for braiding their hair. I recently tried out one of those tools as a tone bar and it sounded pretty good. Not a lot of sustain, but a very soft sound. It worked particularly well on a Dobro.

...and don't forget the traditional glass bottle neck.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 4 Oct 2007 11:27 pm

You can get mellower on the wound strings by using nickel instead of stainless steel strings, also semi-flats or flatwounds. But the unwound strings are the same, and that's where most of the objectionable twang comes from.

As for bars, the material or coating is much more important than the weight. Light metal bars actually sound brighter and thinner than heavy ones, so that's going in the wrong direction. Something heavy, but softer would seem to be the thing. Anyone ever tried a lead bar? A heavy wood bar might be interesting. How about a wood bar with a lead core?

Steve Raulston · Post by **Steve Raulston** » 5 Oct 2007 12:45 pm

Exactly what Donny Hinson said. That will really fatten things up. Two thumbs Donny.

Dieter Bauer · Post by **Dieter Bauer** » 5 Oct 2007 2:22 pm

David got it - Something heavey, but softer would seem to be the thing - I only use bars made of German silver, for pedal steel guitar and lap steel guitar in different sizes. I get them customized from a friend who ownes a lathe. They produce a very rich and mellow sound with much sustain, and they are not as slippery as steel bars. German silver is a very good tone metal. It is used for National Guitars, saxophones, and fret wire.

Bo Borland · Post by **Bo Borland** » 5 Oct 2007 2:42 pm

No one has mentioned Zirconia?

admin · Post by **b0b** » 5 Oct 2007 3:00 pm

The Zirconium bar takes the metallic edge off without affecting sustain. Good luck finding one, though.

I also like the old black Nick Manoloff bar, but it has less sustain.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 6 Oct 2007 6:49 am

In my youth, I started out with that old Nick Manoloff bar and for added mellowness, I also used plasic finger picks. They also work great for softening the tone.

Ron Scott · Post by **Ron Scott** » 7 Oct 2007 9:18 am

I recommend moving your picking hand a little to the left and it softens your playing too.RS

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 8 Oct 2007 2:07 pm

i'm pretty sure they could get behind manufacturing lead bars in china for a reasonable price!!

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 9 Oct 2007 3:18 am

I make bars like this, out of delrin, Molybdenum-filled nylon and acrylic rods:

I use a delrin one almost exclusively myself, they're bigger in diameter than a steel bar but I find that easier to handle, and more controllable - it freaks some people out. When I want more weight, I'm also fond of the hand-blown leaded crystal bars made by Diamond Bottlenecks in England:
http://www.diamondbottlenecks.com/p_sig.html
I have a solid emerald green one that looks a lot like that first "Charlie O" one, 6.25 oz. I find that there's a threshold around 3 oz. below which any & all tone dies off, miserably. Contact me if needed.

(photo courtesy Jim Sliff, though I just got digital myself yesterday - wanna see my cats? Please?)