Hall Of Famers Of The Future

Josh Jones · Post by **Josh Jones** » 17 Sep 2007 9:19 am

My vote would be with Norm Hamlett or Bud Carter. I could actually name quite a few that need to be in there.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 17 Sep 2007 7:14 pm

Mike Sweeney wrote:Donny,

Paul Bigsby = Bigsby steel guitars.

Yeah Mike, I kinda knew that.

But except for those who now own or hawk the Bigsby steels, they have little to offer. To my knowledge, Paul built less than 100, and as soon as something better came along (for most players, that was Fender or a Sho~Bud), players dumped them - and gladly! They dropped from the music scene about 45 years ago (by the mid-60s, you almost couldn't give them away), and I can't for the life of me figure out the "mystique" these guitars have acquired in the last decade or so.

Of course, I also can't understand why an old '57 red Tele would be worth 30 grand, either!

Mike Sweeney · Post by **Mike Sweeney** » 17 Sep 2007 10:57 pm

I agree Donny, But Paul had most everybody wanting one in his time.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 18 Sep 2007 8:49 am

I agree with Mike on Paul Bigsby. Bud Isaacs' landmark recording of "Slowly" on a Bigsby as the first commercial hit with modern, moving harmony, pedal steel alone should put Bigsby in the HOF. For a short while thereafter everybody had to have a Bigsby. It was the first modern pedal steel, and the one which was the model for all that came after. They still all look like a Bigsby, with the raised neck, thin flat body and aprons, and pedal bar across the front. The fact that other makes soon replaced Bigsbys in popularity and availability does not reduce the undeniable historic importance of the Bud Isaacs' and other early Bigsbys. In fact, not only should Paul Bigsby be in the HOF, they should buy Bud's Bigsby so it can physically be there.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 18 Sep 2007 9:15 am

If we are mentioning builders, shouldn't we also include the Harlin brothers?

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 18 Sep 2007 9:30 am

Sorry if this upsets some, but I think the standards by which one get's inducted into the SG-HOF are fairly clear and thus do not apply to just every one who's done "something" in, for, with or about steel guitar(s).
So, with all due respect, but while I can see Emmons, Byrd and Franklin on the same podium, just to mention an example, I can't see how, let's say, Ron Lashley or most any other "builder" would fit into the same picture.
I'll gladly agree with those who silently also think that not all inductees fit into above picture, too. But that shouldn't be used to lower the basic standard.
Maybe, just as there are regional HOF's, like the TSGA HOF there is room for builders HOF... but then, where would we want to see those who didn't build and merely repaired and renovated or just taught?
The SG-HOF addresses the honoring of some of them with Life Time Achievement awards... maybe, after all an appropriate way to commend those who have contributed to our instrument in one or the other way?

... J-D.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 18 Sep 2007 9:49 am

Well, J D, the horse left the barn a long time ago on that, since Shot Jackson was inducted in 1986 - I believe primarily for his contribution to building and advancement of the instrument and other players. As his induction plaque says:

DESIGNER, MANUFACTURER, RETAILER, PROMOTER AND RECORDING ENTERTAINER. HE PIONEERED SHO BUD GUITARS AS A DOMINANT SOUND IN COUNTRY MUSIC. BUT ABOVE ALL, TO SCORES OF STRUGGLING PLAYERS, THEIR COURAGE AND THEIR DETERMINATION TO ACHIEVE THEIR VERY BEST AND THEY DID!

I concur with every word. Seminal contribution to a field like music is not necessarily 100% about playing, IMHO. Of course, Tom Bradshaw is another example.

Every field has its so-called "inside-men" (not gender-specific). They are often relatively unheralded, but that is not necessarily just and proper, again IMHO.

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 18 Sep 2007 10:49 am

I can well accept Shot Jackson... after all he was an Opry member and had more than one record out in his name... HE was famous beyond just the immediate steel guitar circle. But yes, some others weren't or aren't, but would have been or are deserving Life Time Achievement awarders, IMHO.

... J-D.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 18 Sep 2007 11:05 am

I think it's clear from the wording that Shot is in there primarily for his contribution to building and advancement of the instrument, not his playing career. Bud Carter is also a good player. But I think his seminal contribution is to the instrument and its general advancement, which I think is huge.

I really don't understand why the notion of "seminal" contribution can't be something besides playing, or why it should be restricted purely to virtuosos - you say BE, JB, and PF. I think that's a very narrow view of a "Hall of Fame". But that's just my opinion.

BTW, on this comment:

I'll gladly agree with those who silently also think that not all inductees fit into above picture, too. But that shouldn't be used to lower the basic standard.

- are you implicitly arguing that there is some type of "silent majority" that holds this view? I think that would be a pretty large presumption.

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 18 Sep 2007 2:02 pm

Why not let each state recognize its players and then the HOF in St.Louis can choose who they want to induct each year. Down here in Mississippi, we would certainly put Bill Stafford at the top to be inducted. He's the man down here!

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 18 Sep 2007 3:47 pm

Dave Mudgett wrote:...

BTW, on this comment:

I'll gladly agree with those who silently also think that not all inductees fit into above picture, too. But that shouldn't be used to lower the basic standard.
- are you implicitly arguing that there is some type of "silent majority" that holds this view? I think that would be a pretty large presumption.

I am implicitly not. I did not use the word "majority".

... J-D.

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 18 Sep 2007 5:37 pm

JD,Guys like, Paul Bigsby, Leo Fender, Ron Lashley, and Bud Carter, were steel guitar innovators. Also besides Shot, Reece is also in there. These guys had so much to do with steel guitar production. I also think that they belong in there before some of the newer guys even though they are great talent. I have always believed that the older people that have been around awhile should get the accolades before the newer guys like some mentioned in an earlier post. And in relation to the players, these builders have done a lot more for steel guitar than playing a little ditty called Sleepwalk. Let the flaming begin.

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 19 Sep 2007 6:15 am

No flaming needed, but Maurice is not just a builder. Actually, I think of him more as the musician, recording artist he has become famous for, the teacher and to many a mentor he has become known to us steel guitarists, and of course innovator in so many aspects. Bottom line, he IS famous too, and beyond the steel guitar circle who associates him mostly with the universal tuning and MSA.
What I am trying to say here is not to glorify Maurice, but to show that it is probably the bigger picture that ought to be looked at, beyond just what is around us.
Same thing with Jeff Newman, he was not only a premier teacher, he too was an innovator in many ways and formidable musician, session artist who's artistry reached way beyond our recognition.

Talk to guitar, bass and key board players and even singer (the few who do not yet limit themselves to karaoke), people in studios, session players, bands and so forth, and ask them who they know. You will be surprised to find who's names have reached out or our little society and with what impact. That IS fame. (interestingly one name that often pops up, is Bobbe Seymour... figure that one out

)

An other way to look at it: While Sam Phillips is in the Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame, should his recording engineer who was credited for the famous SUN delay sound (by accidentally leaving the door to the recording room open so his monitor sound would feed back into the mike) and also "discovered" and shaped many of the key musicians, also be inducted?

Which builder should be inducted? Which rises the far more complicated question, whom not? Where do you want to draw the line and how would you want to explain it?

Read the SG-HOF outlines. Yes, as I said before, I think the board did in a few cases not fully adhere to it... but it is there as a basic rule.

... J-D.

John Fabian · Post by **John Fabian** » 20 Sep 2007 2:46 am

I would like to put 2 thoughts out here.

1. It is a Steel Guitar Hall of Fame NOT a Steel Guitar PLAYERS Hall of Fame.

2. All the players play better, in part, because of the contributions and innovations to the instrument by the builders.

I would also like to thank those on this thread and elsewhere who support
Bud Carter's nomination to the SGHOF. His nomination was submitted in 2004 and lists his extensive accomplishments in all 7 categories.

Tommy R. Butler · Post by **Tommy R. Butler** » 20 Sep 2007 3:22 am

Ron Lashley Sr.
Leonard Stadler
Mr. Bigsby
Paul Franklin Sr.
Duane Marrs
W0W Just to name a few.....

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 20 Sep 2007 3:23 am

John Fabian wrote:... all 7 categories.

John, could you please list these for the benefit of those of us (including me) who don't know what they all are? Thanks.

John Fabian · Post by **John Fabian** » 20 Sep 2007 7:55 am

I could, but I don't think the text of the nomination really belongs on the Forum.

I would however be glad to post it if and when Bud is inducted into the SGHOF.

Joe Smith · Post by **Joe Smith** » 20 Sep 2007 8:29 am

The two people that I would like to see placed in the the Steel Guitar Hall Of Fame are Bud Carter and Bobbe Seymoure.
By the way John, did Bud help in the design of the MCI steel?

Larry Strawn · Post by **Larry Strawn** » 20 Sep 2007 8:29 am

IMO,

I don't understand why any persons could feel a designer, and builder of these fine instruments should not be elgible for the SGHOF, as long as they meet all the requirement.

There are some people that can,,but I could never build my own steel guitar, so where would the steel guitar be today with out these great innovators?

Just my thoughts.

Larry

Mike Black · Post by **Mike Black** » 20 Sep 2007 8:43 am

delete

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 20 Sep 2007 9:43 am

Just wondering ,How many people go to these shows to see the builders being inducted.? True all go to see the new products and to even buy them...But if they had a product show vs a Players spotlight,would the Rooms fill up every year?..Isn't it the Players who have spread the word and made it possible for these instruments to become popular?.Builders are rewarded with sales if their product is good..Most newbies are influence by the names who play their choice of instrument..There are many little shows throughout the country that feature little known players who are great and they will never have the chance to earn a St. Louis plaque...But they are playing because they were influenced by the players whose plaques grace the walls in Texas and St. Louis...And its these players Young and old that travel yearly to see their heros inducted...Most of the great players can build a guitar,many have..They reach out for the sounds and have discovered many short cuts, and many improvements needed... The builders use these battle tested improvement Ideas and maybe develop a few of their own which helps to make good products....My theory is if your going to give the Purple Heart to someone...Give it to the one who is wounded in the Battle ...Not to the one who handed the weapon to the person who went out in the heat of battle and was wounded.....Not to say that any mentioned above are not great players as well as builders..But If their contributions are so great that they are above the great players still in line and most worthy ..Then by all means honor them...The future of anything depends on good decisions...

Ron Sodos · Post by **Ron Sodos** » 20 Sep 2007 9:51 am

Terry Bethel

John Fabian · Post by **John Fabian** » 20 Sep 2007 10:54 am

Most newbies are influence (sic) by the names who play their choice of instrument

This statement was true at one time. Today, most people are more knowledgeable and have more resources to discover what they feel they need to know in order to make an informed purchase decision. Influence by "names" is very low down on their list. A lot of the "newbies" don't know who these names are. They just know they want to play steel guitar.

Just wondering ,How many people go to these shows to see the builders being inducted.?

A better question would be "How many people go to these shows to see anyone being inducted.?" I suspect the answer is few.

But if they had a product show vs a Players spotlight,would the Rooms fill up every year?..Isn't it the Players who have spread the word and made it possible for these instruments to become popular?

The players influence would be far less without the availability of the instrument provided by the builders and the refinements that allow the players to play at the level they do. That may be the reason they don't play Multichords or Bigsbys anymore.

BTW, historically, these shows started as product showcases for the builders to demonstrate their products (usually with recognized players). They then evolved into the entertainment type shows we see today.

Joe Smith:

Bud designed and developed the MCI guitars in Waco and then moved to Arlington when the company moved. He left before MCI became EMCI.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 20 Sep 2007 11:25 am

I agree with John Fabian on this. The design evolution of the steel guitar - especially the pedal steel guitar - has been critical to its development. I also think we need to acknowledge that, besides being a business, building steel guitars is emphatically a labor of love - these folks are every bit as much of the community as the players, IMO.

If you think that the development of the instrument isn't such a seminal issue - can I assume you're playing a Multi-Kord, Gibson Electraharp, Bigsby, or Fender cable-pull unit, and that modern designs and construction techniques are no big deal?

I reiterate - IMHO, there are many ways to make a seminal contribution to a field. Can you imagine a "Guitar Hall of Fame" which outright excluded Leo Fender or Ted McCarty as members? Bizarre, IMHO.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 20 Sep 2007 11:31 am

I agree with most of John Fabian's comments with the exception of the shows starting as a builders' showcase and only later on becoming entertainment venues. I attended several of the earliest 'Steel Guitar Shows' that Scotty held in the early 1970's at the American Legion Hall down the road from his shop, long before there was any kind of 'Convention' per se. There would be 3 or 4 steelers, a few guest singers and, as always, the great Bobby Caldwell on guitar. To my recollection, there were no builders displaying anything. It was pure entertainment. I think only after it grew to 'hotel-worthy' size, did the builders start to attend to display their wares.

Of course, I'm just a youngin', so I could be off-base here, and maybe there was a parallel universe going on somewhere else that Scotty wasn't involved in...? Seems unlikely to me but hey...

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