Question for PF
Moderators: Dave Mudgett, Janice Brooks
Question for PF
Paul...you stated recently that we're in "transitional times" in terms of country music. In your opinion does that indicate that the traditional three chord story telling type music is gone. I personally subscribe to the Woody Guthrie(?) philosophy.."if you know more than three chords..you're just showin' off".(just kiddin) or the John Prine philosophy. First write the song then take out all the unecessary words.....regards RC<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by RC Antolina on 19 May 2001 at 11:07 PM.]</p></FONT>
- Jack Stoner
- Posts: 22087
- Joined: 3 Dec 1999 1:01 am
- Location: Kansas City, MO
What's wrong with 3 chords?? I did a session back in the 70's that was a take off on the Charlie's Angels TV show - the name of the song was "Tonight I'm Taking Charlie's Angels Home" - and later Mel Tillis did another song tht was pleasurized (I won't say stolen) from that song.
The song made many radio station play lists and even got into the top 10 on the stations. Charlie Douglas was playing it on his all night show on WLW in New Orleans. It only had three chords.
"The rest of the story". They guy that wrote the song, John Moudy" had written quite a few songs and they all had varying amounts of chords, but none 3 chords. He went to Nashville and somehow got into see Fred Rose of Acuff-Rose publishing. He was told his songs with all the chords in them were not country and that he should go home and write a good 3 chord country song and the outcome was the Charlie's Angel song.
There are, obviously, many outstanding songs that have more than three chords, but this is a good example of three chords doing the job.
The song made many radio station play lists and even got into the top 10 on the stations. Charlie Douglas was playing it on his all night show on WLW in New Orleans. It only had three chords.
"The rest of the story". They guy that wrote the song, John Moudy" had written quite a few songs and they all had varying amounts of chords, but none 3 chords. He went to Nashville and somehow got into see Fred Rose of Acuff-Rose publishing. He was told his songs with all the chords in them were not country and that he should go home and write a good 3 chord country song and the outcome was the Charlie's Angel song.
There are, obviously, many outstanding songs that have more than three chords, but this is a good example of three chords doing the job.
- Craig A Davidson
- Posts: 3848
- Joined: 16 Feb 2001 1:01 am
- Location: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
- Contact:
Erik, You can look at that another way. If you were able to write a three chord song, it would for sure be different from all the others. It might stand out in the crowd and become a hit. It might start a trend. The next thing you know someone else will follow up and write a three chord shuffle. A guy can dream can't he?
------------------
------------------
RC<
I don't see that three chords has anything to do with it. "Cracker" has a current smash pop hit which is a story song with an extremely simple melody and has only a few chords. Yet this song sounds as hip as anything out today.
Each decade brings forth new sounds in all forms of music. Musicians are inspired by what they hear, and what they hear is widely more diverse than what they heard in the past. Also because of the easy access to hearing and learning everything, things seem to change faster now. The path of gaining knowledge from the worlds various musical wells with the intent of increasing our personal musicianship skills changes everything, eventually.
Paul
I don't see that three chords has anything to do with it. "Cracker" has a current smash pop hit which is a story song with an extremely simple melody and has only a few chords. Yet this song sounds as hip as anything out today.
Each decade brings forth new sounds in all forms of music. Musicians are inspired by what they hear, and what they hear is widely more diverse than what they heard in the past. Also because of the easy access to hearing and learning everything, things seem to change faster now. The path of gaining knowledge from the worlds various musical wells with the intent of increasing our personal musicianship skills changes everything, eventually.
Paul
Paul...Thanks for your input. Yes music evolves and for the reasons you gave. Compare if you will the Rock 'n Roll sounds of the 50's to todays rock sounds, niether better nor worse just different. I merely wanted your opinion. IMO 3chord country will always be around at some level but not perhaps with the popularity it once dominated with.
Erik...If I were to write songs I guess I'd start out with the 3 chord stuff and try a story line from my experience. I'd try to include cadence and simplicity with a knock out grabber (chorus). I wouldn't make it so complex that the average listener couldn't remember the words or story line. If I have to listen 3 times or more just to understand it the song writer probably missed the mark. Listen to some George Jones to understand my meaning and compare it to "Grown Men". Look at all the hits with the same chord structures. I wouldn't worry about twisting the three chords. I'd find a formula that works and go with it. Far too often IMHO writers try to establish a musical opus and then add the words to fit, the result being less than spectacular. BTW Thanks for your gentlemanly responses as we press on with these debates. All we really need to agree on is that we will occaisionally disagree......<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by RC Antolina on 20 May 2001 at 01:29 PM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by RC Antolina on 20 May 2001 at 02:03 PM.]</p></FONT>
Erik...If I were to write songs I guess I'd start out with the 3 chord stuff and try a story line from my experience. I'd try to include cadence and simplicity with a knock out grabber (chorus). I wouldn't make it so complex that the average listener couldn't remember the words or story line. If I have to listen 3 times or more just to understand it the song writer probably missed the mark. Listen to some George Jones to understand my meaning and compare it to "Grown Men". Look at all the hits with the same chord structures. I wouldn't worry about twisting the three chords. I'd find a formula that works and go with it. Far too often IMHO writers try to establish a musical opus and then add the words to fit, the result being less than spectacular. BTW Thanks for your gentlemanly responses as we press on with these debates. All we really need to agree on is that we will occaisionally disagree......<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by RC Antolina on 20 May 2001 at 01:29 PM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by RC Antolina on 20 May 2001 at 02:03 PM.]</p></FONT>
There are a lot of songs with only 2 chords. Achie Breakie Heart is one, so is The Electric Slide. I'm sure there are lots more.
I wish I had the ability to write a two chord mega hit.
------------------
Playing PSG keeps you on your toes.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Joe Smith on 21 May 2001 at 01:16 PM.]</p></FONT>
I wish I had the ability to write a two chord mega hit.
------------------
Playing PSG keeps you on your toes.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Joe Smith on 21 May 2001 at 01:16 PM.]</p></FONT>
The number of chords a song has does not translate automatically into a melody that is harder or easier to sing, IMHO. Back in the 20's and 30's the tin pan alley writers pounded out all kinds of pop music, most of it having lots of chords. The great melodies are usually simple and easy to sing- "I'm Always Chasing Rainbows", "Bye Bye Blues", etc. Cole Porter's "Don't Fence Me In" has all kinds of chords, but that doesn't make it hard to sing.
Coming up with a good melody that matches the mood of what you're trying to say, and then putting changes under it is quite a job. Having many chords to choose from shouldn't take anything away from a song- only insensitivity to melody and content, IMO.
Coming up with a good melody that matches the mood of what you're trying to say, and then putting changes under it is quite a job. Having many chords to choose from shouldn't take anything away from a song- only insensitivity to melody and content, IMO.
- Olli Haavisto
- Posts: 2518
- Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
- Location: Jarvenpaa,Finland
-
- Posts: 807
- Joined: 14 Feb 2001 1:01 am
- Location: Angola,Ind. U.S.A.
-
- Posts: 21192
- Joined: 16 Feb 1999 1:01 am
- Location: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
"Land Of 1,000 Dances" only had ONE chord! But, I digress. If "complexity" was the thing that made music popular, then classical and jazz would be all you heard on the radio!When you're writing a vocal, the major emphasis should not be on chords, but on the words and melody. The average person doesn't know chords from intervals. But, they know words, and can appreciate their combination with a melody line that is simple enough to hum and remember.
(P.S. to erik...Back when I was younger, I used to think there was no "new way" of arranging only three chords...then I heard the repetitive I-V-IV x4 rhythm in Fogarty's "Bad Moon Rising".)
(P.S. to erik...Back when I was younger, I used to think there was no "new way" of arranging only three chords...then I heard the repetitive I-V-IV x4 rhythm in Fogarty's "Bad Moon Rising".)
Erik
Have you listened to Merle Haggard's latest CD, "If I Could Only Fly"? There are alot of 3 chord songs there with original melodies. As a matter of fact I think that album is one of Merle's all time greatest. Just MHO. BTW, I think that Norm's steel playing, as sparse as it may be on the CD, is some of the most beautiful he has ever played. Simplicity is the way to go as far as I am concerned.
Steve G
Have you listened to Merle Haggard's latest CD, "If I Could Only Fly"? There are alot of 3 chord songs there with original melodies. As a matter of fact I think that album is one of Merle's all time greatest. Just MHO. BTW, I think that Norm's steel playing, as sparse as it may be on the CD, is some of the most beautiful he has ever played. Simplicity is the way to go as far as I am concerned.
Steve G
-
- Posts: 6870
- Joined: 27 Nov 2000 1:01 am
- Location: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
- Contact:
-
- Posts: 321
- Joined: 28 Mar 2000 1:01 am
- Location: Turner Valley, Alberta Canada
-
- Posts: 148
- Joined: 3 Apr 2001 12:01 am
- Location: Buda, Texas, USA