String gauge

[Nancy Beck]

I just Purchased the beautiful Fender “57 double 8. I have to admit I have not fallen in love with it yet. For one thing the strings are looser than I like and noisy. The seller said he put on the Scotty’s SIT strings on the front neck (C6) and he didn’t know what the back neck was. I bought a measuring tool and tried to measure the strings and I researched and found that the larger the sting gauge, the tighter the stings will be. The back neck strings were way too loose when I tuned it to A6 so I ordered Scotty’s 8 string A6 and installed them today. Still loose, but very slightly less. I REALLY wish I could find a set like I have on my other instruments. They came with the instrument so I am not sure what they are. The 4th string is not wound, and I am finding these strings loud when I do solo string runs. I also bought a new tone bar at the TX SG Jamboree last month and I can’t use it on these strings as they grab. . I am ordering a .022 that is p or plain-i think, not wound. As you can see by the photo this neck is the shorter neck. Can anyone give me the correct string gauges and where I could find strings. I like a tighter feel on my strings, and the less wound the better. I have used StringsByMail, but it takes at least 10 days to get anything.

Also, my sound seems distorted, I have played with the wheel under the cover plate that changes the pickup usage, but that doesn’t seem to matter. It may be the strings, but I don’t have the “buttery” sound that I get with my Clinesmith or J Allison steel. I use the Spark Edge and have worked on the settings to see if I can change them to better work with the Fender, but still kind of crunchy and noisy sounding. The tone knob is almost turned to the “muffled “ Setting. Sorry for the long note but I want to fall in love with this instrument and use it as my main one, but so far I am falling short, Thanks for any suggestions,

[Noah Miller]

I bought a measuring tool and tried to measure the strings and I researched and found that the larger the sting gauge, the tighter the stings will be.

Yup. String tension is a function of the mass of the string (not quite the same thing as gauge, but they're related), the pitch the string is tuned to, and the scale length. Given the same scale and pitch, a heavier string will be at higher tension.

I REALLY wish I could find a set like I have on my other instruments.

Do your other instruments have the same scale length as this Fender? If so, you can just assemble your own set by buying individual strings.

Can anyone give me the correct string gauges and where I could find strings.

Correct for what tuning?

Also, my sound seems distorted...still kind of crunchy and noisy sounding

Is it distorted or is there background hum? Those are two different sounds with different remedies.

but I don’t have the “buttery” sound that I get with my Clinesmith or J Allison steel

I'm not familiar with Allison steels, but this Fender is never going to sound anything like a Clinesmith. It's not supposed to.

[Michael Kiese]

Aloha Nancy,

I always recommend that players use a string tension calculator. There are many free apps and websites.

Here's one:
https://tension.stringjoy.com

You just input your specific tuning and the scale length of your guitar. Then it gives you the tension of each string in foot pounds.

After experimenting, I found 15 ftlbs too low and 30 ftlbs too high. There is a guy on the forum that likes 30 ftlbs of tension for each string. There's no right or wrong, it's just what you like.

If the tension is too low, then the strings will lack volume. If the strings are too tight, then sustain suffers. There are no solutions, only tradeoffs.

It's all just what you like. I recommend 25 ftlbs per string as a starting point.

Use a string tension calculator to create a custom set of strings, and then buy single strings at your local guitar store, or order them online.

If you order strings online, you can create a couple of different sets of strings, that way you take advantage of the shipping you're paying. For example one set each of 30 ftlbs, 25 ftlbs, 20 ftlbs, and 15 ftlbs. Then try 'em out and see for yourself.

Once you discover what tension you like, you can then experiment with different types of strings e.g. Roundwound, flatwound, rollerwound.

Also there are strings made of different alloys. Hours of fun going on a journey of self discovery.

Enjoy!

[Michael Kiese]

One thing I forgot to mention is that those old fenders need to be opened up and checked. The electronics usually need some TLC.

I have a 1955 quad neck string master. I had to replace all the original cloth wires because the cloth disintegrated. There was a lot of bare wire that was grounding out everywhere.

So at the very least, open up the control plate and inspect everything. Spray some deoxit into those old pots.

May as well do that when you have the strings removed.

Good luck!

[Stephen Cowell]

Glad you got the guitar Nancy... yes, you're right, it should sound better.

It's a short-scale guitar... so the strings should go up in gauge for the same tuning. I'd try this first... tune from A6 to B6... then see if the tension is what is wrong. Just bring all strings up a half-step or a full-step and see how that sounds... you can do this without replacing the strings.

As Michael noted there are string gauge charts... but the scale of the guitar has a lot to do with the tension. You'll find wound strings behave differently than solid... I like your idea of buying .022 solid singles, that's a hard string to find at the store! All my Fenders are 22.5" but I'm not an A6 player (yet). Use John Ely's chart but moderate it with your own tastes of course. I'm guessing you bought a digital caliper for measuring string width? Excellent idea.

https://www.hawaiiansteel.com/graphics/ ... _chart.pdf

[Michael Kiese]

As Michael noted there are string gauge charts... but the scale of the guitar has a lot to do with the tension.

Sup Steve,

Just wanted to point this out for clarification. String gauge calculators are different from charts.

With a string gauge calculator, you input the note you want, the string gauge you want, and the scale length of your instrument. The calculator then gives you the tension of that string.

In this way, as players, we can use string tension as a universal unit of measurement of comparison across instruments of different scale lengths.

Pragmatically speaking, knowing what string tension I like has been a very useful gauge across steel guitars of different scale lengths. So if I get a new steel guitar with an unusual scale length, I’ll use a string gauge calculator to make myself a custom set of strings with the string tension I like. For me, that has always been a good starting point.

[Tim Whitlock]

The Stringmaster is a wonderful instrument for playability and great sound. Sorry to hear it is not working out for you. I use SIT C6, A6 and E7 sets on my beloved '56 short scale T8 and the tension is just fine. I'm very puzzled as to why they would seem loose to anyone, unless perhaps the instrument is not tuned correctly. I can play in A6, C6 and B11 just fine with the same set of strings. I feel like I can tune up or down a full step on a given string and it doesn't bother me. So I guess I'm not much help on this question except to suggest you check your notes. For C6 it should be hi to low: ECAGECAG and the C on the second string is middle C or C4. I would also advise against choosing overly tight strings as this will warp your fretboards.

In regard to string noise, also known as bar noise, you might want to try a Clinesmith polymer bar. It's made of a very durable plastic (same as that used in hip replacement joints) that glides virtually silently on the strings, compared to a metal bar. I've been using one for many years and would have a hard time going back to metal. I'm also wondering why your new strings "grab" and the ones on your other guitars don't. Could they be flatwounds? The windings on flatwounds are very smooth to the touch compared to the rough texture of standard strings.

[Nancy Beck]

Thank you all for the great advice. I do LOVE the instrument, I just need to get it right for me. I will tune it up to see if that helps and then also look into the string tension calculator.
One more thing, does anyone have trouble with the height of the strings to the neck? This guitar has a lower string setting and my thumb pick is always clicking on the neck. I don’t have those issues with any of my other 4 lap steels. I am not using finger picks, I just can’t get as accurate using them. Uhg! Thanks!

[Peter Jacobs]

Hi, Nancy - I agree, I’m not fond of low string height over the fretboard. But like everything else, you can get used to it. There are thumb picks with shorter blades, so that might be something to look into.

BTW, I get my single strings from Strings and Beyond — very fast service. I usually have them in 3-4 days. No affiliation, just my preference. It took me a while to figure out the string tension I like. Too stiff, and it’s like playing on a solid board, too loose and they bend when I tip the bar. I only have short scale steels so I can use the same gauges for all of them.

[Tony Oresteen]

Nancy,

You Stringmaster is a 22.5" scale known as "short scale. "Medium scale" is 24.5" and "Long scale" is 26.0" in the Stringmaster world.

For 22.5" scale here's what I use:

Fender Stringmaster C6 A6 short scale 500.jpg

I order single strings from Just Strings and make up my own sets.


Good luck!

[Rich Arnold]

You raised quite a few issues.
Much of what you are asking us depends on what you want to hear. If I was there with you I could probably do some knob twisting and get everything sounding pretty good, but I'm not so I'm reduced to speculation.
I can tell you what works for me. I don't give advice. I share experience.
String gauges. The guys are right. Use a string gauge. I refer to them often, but it only gets me close. I usually go up or down a couple thousands to get what I want to hear and feel exactly.
I know what I'm listening for so I can always tell if I'm headed in the right direction.
Every guitar has it's own sound and it's own quarks. I played on Lower Broadway in Nashville for years and Ghrun Guitars was just a stone's throw. I would often step in there to play the guitars that were for sale. One observation I made is that all instruments sound different. Even those that have back to back serial numbers differ in sound.
On my Fender D8 the two necks sound very different! We could speculate from now until doomsday as to why. But I don't like to get bogged down with PIDS syndrome. (PIDS= The preoccupation with inconsequential differences)
Rather than complain about this, I find how to take advantage of the difference in the necks since both sound good but in different ways.
I almost never switch necks in the middle of a song but check this recording out where I do.
https://vimeo.com/1071971929
From this recording you can clearly hear when I change necks.
In this same way, I hope you can take advantage of the difference between this Fender you acquired and your other guitars. I trust you have good ears because if you didn't, you would not be attracted to the sound of the steel guitar in the first place. God Speed. R.

[Fred Treece]

I also have a 57 Fender D8. The pickup adjustment wheel should be making a fairly profound difference in the tone, turning it all the way left or right. Make sure the wheel is actually turning the shaft. The gearing might be worn and the wheel is just spinning loosely. If the shaft is turning and there is still no tonal change, then and there is something electronically amiss.

Regarding distorted sound. This a pretty clean sounding instrument. The pickup will distort if you drive the amp, but a typically clean amp setting shouldn’t fuzz out.

Try working the volume knob back and forth. If it makes a scratching sound, then the pot is dirty and could be causing the unpleasant sound.

Try rolling the guitars volume way back and see if that cleans up the tone.

Make sure your amp settings aren’t heating things up. I don’t know the Spark amp, but I believe there are choices for amp model types, and it has a Gain setting knob. Try setting it to the Clean amp with Gain at 9 o’clock position, with the tone knobs no higher than 12-noon position. Run the Volume/Output knob higher than the Gain, as a rule for clean tone. If you want super squeaky clean, try turning the Gain all the way down and run the Volume up high. Also try the Acoustic amp type. Some Katana amp users swear by the Acoustic amp model for steel guitar.

[Fred Treece]

I almost never switch necks in the middle of a song but check this recording out where I do.
https://vimeo.com/user140801714
From this recording you can clearly hear when I change necks.

Thanks for that link, Rich. Nice to have a lot of your stuff all in one place. Or, two places, including your YT channel. Your playing never ceases to blow me away.

The link didn’t take me to a specific tune. I went looking for the one where you switch necks, but couldn’t find it.

[Rich Arnold]

Sorry about that....try this one

https://vimeo.com/1071971929

[Fred Treece]