Looking for octave designations for each string of an open tuning

[Dwight Shackelford]

I'm finding very little for some tunings I want, and a lot for tunings I don't want. What I'm talking about is something like this:

Open G: D2 G2 D3 G3 B3 D4

I'm looking for something for C6, and Open G GBDGBD.

This might be second nature to experienced players, but I'm brand new. The reason I'm wanting this is that I'm writing a database which will let me enter tablature for a song in one tuning, then see what the fingering would look like in another tuning. I'm still trying to decide on what fingering to use.

[Mike Auman]

Hi Dwight, here are some starting points on 8-string, with string 1 = high, and the frequencies are for equal temperament. There's a C6, and Michael McClellan's G13 which is the closest I have on hand to an open G. A440 is octave A4, and the octaves begin with C and end with B.

Octaves_C6.png

Octaves_G13.png

[Michael Kiese]

I'm finding very little for some tunings I want, and a lot for tunings I don't want. What I'm talking about is something like this:

Open G: D2 G2 D3 G3 B3 D4

I'm looking for something for C6, and Open G GBDGBD.

This might be second nature to experienced players, but I'm brand new. The reason I'm wanting this is that I'm writing a database which will let me enter tablature for a song in one tuning, then see what the fingering would look like in another tuning. I'm still trying to decide on what fingering to use.

Hi Dwight,

Some helpful info:

Octaves are most easily visualized by looking at a piano keyboard, which has 8 octaves and few notes above and below.

The lowest C on a piano is C1. Middle C on a piano is C4.

Standard guitar tuning (EADGBE) has a low E2 and a high E4.

A bass is tuned EADG with a low E1.

C6 (CEGACE) has a low C3 and a high E4.

My take is: I don’t need anything more than 8 strings, because it will take you into the lowest end of the piano, and that’s bass player territory. Even piano players have to learn not to step on a bass player’s toes by laying off their heavy left hand.

As for tuning, and fingerings, check out this free website. https://www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/

You input the tuning, and it will highlight chords for you.

There is no “magic” tuning which makes everything easy. There are always compromises and trade-offs. So just pick a tuning that makes it easy for what you want to do. Or, pick 2 or 3 tunings that are great one trick ponies.

I think C6 is a great universal tuning for all types of playing. There’s a lot in there. That said, there a handful of great “strumming” tunings like B11 or E13 that just sound great on a full bar chord.

All that said:

Open G: D2 G2 D3 G3 B3 D4 is fine. You can experiment and move it up or down an octave, but the string gauges will need to be changed.

C6: C3 E3 G3 A3 C4 E4

The top strings are usually in the 4th octave. You don’t really need the highest open strings to be in the 5th octave because your bar can travel as high as it needs to toward the bridge. Lots of string real estate to go as high as you want.

Have fun exploring and enjoy.

[Dwight Shackelford]

Thank you both.

[Tony Oresteen]

Octave designations are a pet peeve of mine. When I give a tuning I always include the octave designation.

Example:

Open G 500.jpg

Note the second column from the left. It has an "O" at the top which means "Octave"

I also include the SCALE length, string size & type and the tension ("pull") in pounds.

If only notes are given, I hate it when the writer doesn't specify if it is High to Low (H2L) or Low to High (L2H).

Example:

My tuning is: E C F# B Ab D

How do you know which way it goes? Guys, it doesn't take much to add (L2H) G B D G B D or (H2L) D B G D B G . Please take the time to designate which way your tuning goes. It helps everyone! Thank you!


Back to octaves. There are TWO (err THREE, err FOUR, err FIVE) "standards" for designating the octaves where a note is:

1. American Standard Pitch Notation (ASPN). Middle C is C4.

2. International Standards Organization (ISO) system for register designations. Middle C is C4.

3. Scientific pitch notation (SPN). Middle C is C4.

4. Acoustical Society of America (ASA). Middle C is C4.

5. MIDI Standards, Middle C is C3.


https://viva.pressbooks.pub/openmusicth ... pter/aspn/

https://openmusictheory.github.io/pitches.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_pitch_notation

https://acousticalsociety.org/

https://computermusicresource.com/midikeys.html


I follow (as most do) the ISO standard where middle C is C4. However if you are using MIDI to program a keyboard or sound module, you have to remember that MIDI notation uses Middle C as C3. So in effect there are only two standards: MIDI and everyone else. Also note that Yamaha uses ISO standards in it's MIDI implementation. I ALWAYS verify where Middle C is notated by a given manufacturer's MIDI device. Note that the MIDI NUMBER for Middle C is always 60 regardless of which system the manufacturer uses.

I would like to find a tuner that displays the register (octave) that the to note is in.

[Michael Kiese]

Hi Tony,

You made some good points.

Looking at your chart, I think there is a typo. Your second string should be a B3, not a B4. Otherwise, it would be a sixth above your D4.

B4 is right next to C5. In other words, your 2nd string would be higher than your 1st string.

Other than that, I'd recommend that beginners and non beginners alike simply use the piano as a reference. It is so much easier to just look at a piano keyboard, and count up all the C's. It's a great visual representation.

There are eight C notes on a piano. The lowest C note is C1. The highest C note is C8. The middle C note is C4 and it is quite literally in the middle of the piano.

It conveys the same information that you explained, but much more simply and intuitively for most people.

Lots of thought and engineering went into designing the piano. It's a widely accepted instrument across the world. If there is any pragmatic standard, the piano keyboard is it by default until something better or more intuitive comes along.

You did make a good point about confusion/interpretation of tuning. Some people like to list their strings low to high. Other people like to list their strings high to low.

I would submit that just putting an octave number next to each string would remove confusion in both cases.

C3, E3, G3, A3, C4, E4

E4, C4, A3, G3, E3, C3

Either way, it's quick to write out and it removes confusion.

Having said all that, everything you said is important information. Scale length, tuning, string tension, octave designations. All good stuff that many musicians, not just steel players, gloss over.

[Tony Oresteen]

Mike,

Right you are! Thanks for spotting it. I deleted the .JPG and the original source spreadsheet was correct with Octave 3 specified.


You stated:

"Other than that, I'd recommend that beginners and non beginners alike simply use the piano as a reference. It is so much easier to just look at a piano keyboard, and count up all the C's. It's a great visual representation.

There are eight C notes on a piano. The lowest C note is C1. The highest C note is C8. The middle C note is C4 and it is quite literally in the middle of the piano."

A number of issues with this:

1. Most folks do not have a piano these days - if they do have anything it's an electric keyboard. I have a piano but it's in pieces with all the keys removed

2, Most keyboards have less than 88 keys, My Roland A37 is one of the larger MIDI controller keyboards and it has only 76 keys as does my Ensonic MR-76.

3. Most guitar players (including bass players ) I know can't find middle C on a piano let alone all 8 of them.


I doubt that we would get much agreement in naming notes in a tuning with an octave number here on the forum. I'm just hoping for a simple L2H/H2L

As a group, steel players (and Spanish guitar payers too) need to be more precise when they talk about notes, tunings, and octaves. The issue is caused by decades and decades of inprecision "tradition" in the way we speak shop that has led to where we are today. Most Spanish guitar players do not know where Middle C is on their guitars or that guitar music is written one octave higher than it sounds. Do steel players know where Middle C is on their instruments?

I'm glad that when I was in school (many, many, many, many years ago) I studied Music Theory even though I could barely read music at the time. It really helped me understand music later in life.

[Michael Kiese]

Hi Tony,

This literally took me 2 minutes with a google search to find.

Finding middle C on a piano is exceedingly easy and intuitive. Just show people this picture.

People may not have a piano, but they have the internet, and can look at an image on their phone.

Just looking at this image for 30 seconds, and your average person on the street goes from ignorance to expert in understanding octaves and being able to find where middle C is.

https://www.guide2music.com/piano-start ... iano-keys/