In GBDGBD tuning, are there any OPEN strings to avoid when in on C or D chord when playing in scale of G?

[Doug Anderson]

In GBDGBD tuning, are there any OPEN strings to avoid when on C or D chord when playing in scale of G?

I have a decent music theory knowledge but struggling to figure this one out by myself.

How about any OPEN strings to avoid when in C minor or D minor?

Thank you! Doug

[Jeremy Reeves]

C = C E G
C minor = C Eb G
D = D F# A
D minor = D F A

you may want to avoid non chord-tone open strings

[Allan Revich]

Hey Doug,

When tuned GBDGBD there are usually no open strings when you play C or D major chords. You have two octaves straight across all 6 strings. C on the 5th fret and D on the 7th.

For minor chords some music theory really helps.
1) GBD = E minor 7 (EGBD) without the root, so if you have a bass player or other instruments, and a flat 7 will work, just pretend that your instrument is tuned to E minor and count up the fretboard.
2) B minor is BDF# so you can play only the B & D strings and mute or skip the G string.
3) Skip the B string and play only the G & D strings. This gives “power chords”, starting with G5, that are neither major or minor so can be used for either.

These are not the only solutions. Probably the most popular is to use a tuning that includes enough notes to play minor or major chords.

[Tony Oresteen]

I struggled with this for a while then realized that this is where the 7 string lap steel really helps. I put the 6th note between the two staked major chords:

(L2H) GBG E GBD

Now you have Em right there: E G B

And Em7: E G B D

I do have a Gibson BR-9 tuned (L2H) GBDGBD and primarily use for rock songs that stay in a major key. If I need a 6 chord (minor) I'll find the root note (E) and let the keboard/guitar play the full chord.

Last summer I bought a 1936 National 7 string New Yorker just for this G6 tuning - (L2H) GBGEGBD.

Or you can use a 6 string G6 tuning (L2H) GBDEGB.

This is a good example to explain why lap steel eventually settled on 8 strings.

[Fred Treece]

If you’re thinking in terms of single notes, then it would help to know how the notes of the tuning relate as intervals to each chord.

G-B-D over a C chord is 5-maj7-9
(Same for Cm)

G-B-D over a D chord is 4-6-1
(Same for Dm)

In a run of single notes from the key of G over any of those chords, the open strings can serve as extensions of the chords or transitions between other chord tones. You could also get away with playing something very simple, like a repeating B-C-D single note riff (pick open string 2, hammer on to fret one, then play open string 1) over a G-C-D chord progression.

There are notes from the G major scale to avoid when playing over Cm or Dm chords, but they are fretted notes (E and F#, respectively).

The low G sucks over D, and kinda sucks over Dm, unless you use it to hammer up to fret 2,

[Rich Ertelt]

Yes? No?

Long version

Depends on what you are trying to do.
For instance, the C chord,
the open G is the 5
B is the Major 7. VERY important in melody in a major key. It's a leading tone to the 1.
The D in the 9. Important melody note, may not be one I'd linger on, but could, 9 chords are especially cool in bluesy stuff.

There really aren't any "avoid" notes. Some are better passing tones, some are better resting tones. And you want to use notes outside the basic major triad of the chord - the 1, 3 and 5 - to create tension, which you release by resolving to a chord tone, usually. How far out you get depends on you, what you are trying to play, the style. Like a slow major scale melodic song, I'm less inclined to play say a b9, though I would sometimes, in a swingy jazzy or bluesy thing, I'm all over b9s.

Short version - no, there are no 'avoid' notes for me in this example. And I mean all 12 notes, plus quarter tones.

For minor chords, playing the Major 3 of the chord will usually clash. You can use it as a passing note, but I wouldn't normally hang on it over a minor chord.

[Fred Treece]

For instance, the C chord,
the open G is the 4

I’m sure you meant to say in a C chord, G is the 5, not a suspended 4.

[Rich Ertelt]

For instance, the C chord,
the open G is the 4

I’m sure you meant to say in a C chord, G is the 5, not a suspended 4.

Duh, lol. I was thinking about both chords, he asked a about the C and D chords. That's what I get for reading when I'm supposed to be working. Fixed it, thanks.

Still, the overall point is the same. There are no "Avoid" notes to me, just ones I may not linger on as much.
I even use the Major 3 over the minor chord. It works really well if you know how to use it.

[Fred Treece]

I appreciate the notion of chromatics, too.

The topic of the OP was open strings to avoid in GBDGBD tuning over various chords, while also adhering to the G scale. I still think low G sucks over a D chord as anything but a note to hammer your way on out of so you can hit something that sounds good.

[Michael Kiese]

Simplest way to think about this without getting into chords: Just relate your open strings to the Key of the song you're playing.

Your open strings are G, B, D. All natural notes. Just ask yourself if those open notes are in the key signature of the song you're playing.

Key of G, Yes. 1, 3, 5
Key of C, Yes. 5, major 7, 9
Key of D, Yes. 4, 6, 1
Key of Am, Yes. b7, 9, 11

The I, IV, and V chords of any key will share the key signature of the I chord.

If you're in the key of G, your I chord is G, IV chord is C, V chord is D. The notes G, B, and D will work in all of those chords. D is a V chord, and playing a G in that chord will "rub" but it can work, and that's the whole point to playing open strings...to get cool sounding chords that you normally can't get with a bar.

If you're in the key of G, and someone plays a C7 chord, then you're going to rub a bit too. The B note needs to be a Bb in a C7 chord. But hell, try it and see if you like the sound. It will be a fleeting moment anyway. The only thing that makes something musically "wrong" is intention and usage. There really are no rules. You just learn guidelines and then you learn how to break them.

Music is just like learning a language, because it IS a language. Take English for example, because that's the main common language in his forum. We all went to school and learned how to read, write, and speak English properly. But when we speak conversational English, we break the "rules" all the time. And every group of people around the world who speaks English all have a different way of breaking the "rules" of English. But somehow we can all still understand each other. We're all divided by a common language, lol.

Even simpler way of thinking: look at the piano. All the white keys are the natural notes. All the modes of C major will utilize natural "open notes". G, B, and D will be among them.

Never think harder than you have to. It's not pragmatic. The point is to make music and have fun, not to pass a test or get into an academic debate.

"Dumbing down" theory is really "smartening it up". If you're able to take complex subjects and distill them down to simple relationships, that's called mastery.

Hope that helps.

Enjoy!

[Fred Treece]

The “simple way to think about it”….hmmm.

It seemed a fairly simple question with an easy answer, but since the OP has not said “BINGO! Thank you!” to a single response, I don’t think the clear and simple explanation is present in this thread yet.

There have been 2 or 3 different angles taken to say basically the same thing, along with a few comments that are a bit off the rails imho, but evidently nothing (including my obviously incoherent ramblings) has driven the golden spike.

It’s not really a simple question at all. It’s improvisation 101 for sure, but for somebody just getting their feet wet in the process, it’s an important concept to try to get right.

My best advice is, if you don’t understand the comments in this discussion, take some lessons or buy some books on music theory and improvisation. The concepts are basically the same for any instrument and any tuning.

[Brooks Montgomery]

It’s all very simple. You can play any open strings in any bar position and you call it jazz. If a note sounds off, it creates tension. And then it resolves when you put the instrument down and you go pour yourself a drink.

[Doug Anderson]

Dear Group!

Thank you soooo much for the fantastic response. I learned a TON reading this including a bunch of things that went above and beyond but that really helped my understanding.

Sorry about the delayed response. Life got busy for a bit there.

I really appreciate the folks on this discussion board!!!!

Sincerely, Doug

[Fred Treece]

It’s all very simple. You can play any open strings in any bar position and you call it jazz. If a note sounds off, it creates tension. And then it resolves when you put the instrument down and you go pour yourself a drink.

Well said, Brooks!

And, you’re welcome, Doug. Glad you were able to make some sense of all this.