Fraud Alert - 12/26/2024

[Dave Mudgett]

For the last week or two, one or more scammers have hacked into forum member accounts and attempted to scam members here. We do our best to identify fishy For Sale threads and then remove the threads and then deactivate the hacked account. Unfortunately, it appears that someone replied and sent funds to a scammer that hacked into James Kerr's account before we noticed the problem.

You should read this thread, started last Thursday, 12/19/24, warning about this problem. I've updated it with the latest info today -

viewtopic.php?p=3235818

If you notice ANY suspicious classified ad,

1. Immediately email admin@steelguitarforum.com and both admins (Dave Mudgett and Brad Bechtel). Please include a link to the suspicious ad so we can find it unambiguously.

2. Do not reply to the ad.

Unfortunately, there is no perfect algorithm to identify a 'suspicious' ad. But there are many warning signs:

1. The ad is from a new user or non-well-known member.

2. The ad posts a price that seems 'too good to be true'.

3. Someone who hasn't posted in a long time posts an ad.

4. Someone posts an ad for something that, looking over their forum history, seems to be out-of-character for the things they are generally interested in.

5. The ad specifies payment methods such as paypal friends and family, zelle, or some other method that offers buyers no protection if something goes wrong. In fact, specifying paypal friends and family is strictly against forum policy - viewtopic.php?t=382626

6. The seller does not appear to know much about what they're selling, or something about the ad doesn't make sense.

7. You do a search and see an ad for the same item (photos, description, etc.) anywhere else, but the price and/or location are different, or something doesn't line up with the forum ad.

These are just some common issues. But if anything seems fishy, email us immediately and don't allow your zeal to purchase get the best of you.

If you have replied to an ad, further warning signs would include:

1. Seller won't share personal information like phone number and email + physical addresses. You can't authenticate someone without that information.

2. Seller demands non-protected payment methods like paypal friends and family or zelle - especially if they won't give you detailed personal information about themselves, such as physical and email addresses or phone contact information.

If you see an ad for something you want, you should always authenticate their identity. Do a web search of name, phone number, email and physical address, or anything else they tell you, and make sure everything lines up with user information you can glean from the forum. If you have any doubt about something like an email address, email the admins - we may be able to help because we have access to, for example, the email address registered with the forum.

Unless you're dealing with someone you know well (as in, know well enough to recognize their voice when you call them), you should take this authentication very, very seriously and simply walk away if anything they state doesn't line up perfectly with that authentication.

[john widgren]

Happy New Year to all. I would like to thank Dave for doing all that he does to try keep the "stupid" off of the forum. Its sometimes must seem like a heavy lift Dave, but I for one am grateful for you and your vigilance, level headed, and fairly exercised efforts.

You are very much appreciated.

[Dave Mudgett]

A list of users we believe have been compromised is here - viewtopic.php?t=405618

We have doubts about recent For Sale ads by any of them.

We'll update this as we get new info. However, this is a time-consuming and imperfect process, so you need to do your own analysis before you make a deal with anybody. The upshot is that you are forwarned - there are one or more hackers trying to scam forum members. You need to take this very seriously!

[Mike Goldring]

It's a shame that some no good people do this, I've never had any issue buying or selling here on this site.
It's always best to use common sense on any transaction though.
Thanks Dave

[Paul Awalt]

I had Alan Percy offered to buy my guitar, I kind of figured he was from another planet, thanks for the warning, Dave.

[Bill Ladd]

Thanks Dave.

[Paul Awalt]

I'm hesitant about talking on the phone or thru emails immediately from a buyer or seller until I get a feel by communicating thru the forum messaging system for a few times.

[Jerry Overstreet]

There goes my good neighbor policy of shipping ahead of receiving payment. Thanksalot damn thieves.

[Dave Mudgett]

I'm hesitant about talking on the phone or thru emails immediately from a buyer or seller until I get a feel by communicating thru the forum messaging system for a few times.

I understand that. I am wary of anybody on the internet I don't know, even an unknown or new forum member. I think it is very reasonable to keep discussion of goods, price, and other terms via forum communication for a while.

But given the type of hacks going on now - anybody who will not, at some point, give full details when asking me or anybody else to send them money will not only get short shrift from me, but as an admin, will from now risk getting the boot off this forum. This crap has to stop, and I mean now.

Given what's been going on, we need to adopt a "kill ad and deactivate user" if we see anything the slightest bit funky going on with a classified post. If you think you've been singled out unfairly, definitely email admin@steelguitarforum.com. But you're going to have to jump through a few hoops to prove you are who you say you are.

Finally - and this is important - if you see a suspicious looking ad - even if it's not something you are interested in - do not hesitate to email admin@steelguitarforum.com as well as me and Brad Bechtel. I know people are worried about falsely accusing someone of something serious like fraud. But we will take you seriously and check it out. Many times, our ability to detect scammers here has been through the alertness of honest forum members who let us know something funky is up. And thank you in advance.

[Don R Brown]

There goes my good neighbor policy of shipping ahead of receiving payment. Thanksalot damn thieves.

A suggestion which may help in some cases. See if you and the potential buyer or seller have a mutual friend on the forum. Someone who you have bought from before, or just someone you've known a long time. Have your trusted friend confirm he DOES know the buyer/seller, and make a contact on your behalf - to confirm THAT person is actually who he/she claims to be. That can actually reassure BOTH parties they are dealing with someone reputable.

From there you can proceed to direct discussions with a bit more confidence.

[Dave Campbell]

this forum is still the only place where i would send a stranger a whack of money on faith that they will send me something. that said, all of your tips to avoid scams are right on point.

thanks for the work that you do!

[Shoshanah Marohn]

It appears we have had one more victim to this recent scammer. The person used the "friends and family" part of Paypal to pay. As Dave said, DON'T USE FRIENDS AND FAMILY! You have no protection that way.

And I want to agree 1000% with Dave when he says, "But given the type of hacks going on now - anybody who will not, at some point, give full details when asking me or anybody else to send them money will not only get short shrift from me, but as an admin, will from now risk getting the boot off this forum. This crap has to stop, and I mean now."

And thank you to all the honest people. Be smart, though. Ask us if you aren't sure. There's no shame in asking questions! Email me at admin@steelguitarforum.com.

[Richard Sinkler]

It appears we have had one more victim to this recent scammer. The person used the "friends and family" part of Paypal to pay. As Dave said, DON'T USE FRIENDS AND FAMILY! You have no protection that way.

And I want to agree 1000% with Dave when he says, "But given the type of hacks going on now - anybody who will not, at some point, give full details when asking me or anybody else to send them money will not only get short shrift from me, but as an admin, will from now risk getting the boot off this forum. This crap has to stop, and I mean now."

And thank you to all the honest people. Be smart, though. Ask us if you aren't sure. There's no shame in asking questions! Email me at admin@steelguitarforum.com.

To further the caution on using "Friends & Family", if you read the terms of your Paypal agreement, they forbid you to use it to purchase things, although it's hard for them to police it. Neither buyer or seller have any recourse if something goes wrong. It is also against their policy to ask the buyer to pay fees. That is the responsibility of the seller. There are ways around it. I include the fees to my asking price. There are other ways too if you Google who pays the Paypal fees.

[Tommy Shown]

Thanks for the heads up Dave

[Dale Rottacker]

Thanks for you vigilance Dave.

[Paul Awalt]

I would be cautious dealing with Sellers who are speculating that they may want to sell, not interested in posting detailed pictures or prices, and only want to communicate by phone calls. In addition, selling large amount of various items in a package deal.

[HowardR]

Scammers have become more sophisticated and adept at subverting the system....they are no longer easily or blatantly recognizable and you have to do a deeper dive in order to discover their rouse....on facebook I admin the group, Slide, Pedal, and Lap Steel Guitars and have implemented a stipulation with regard to for sale posts.....the poster must include at least one photo of themselves with the item that they post for sale....the photo must be recognizable and correspond to their profile photo.....and they must have a profile photo if they want to post an item for sale.....I would go one step further and also require that the person hold a piece of paper with their name and date of their posting.....