Tone Bar vs. Bullet-shaped steel on lap steel

[Ken Koellner]

I've been playing square neck reso since June and bought a cheap SX lap steel for practice while traveling. I have two tone bars, a Lap Dawg and a Shubb-SP3. I use those also on the lap steel. I notice most use the bullet/cylinder style steel on lap steels. I'm wondering why the difference and preference and also if at this point, I would notice a difference. I'm wondering, should I get a cyclinder/bullet steel for the lap to try it. If so, what would be different. And if so, what would be a decent not to expensive model and size to try.

-K

[Erv Niehaus]

It's easier to make slants with a round bar.

[Bill Groner]

It's easier to make slants with a round bar.

But harder to hang on to....at least for me!

[Rick Aiello]

https://steelguitarshopper.com/dunlop-9 ... 2-75-x-75/

Available here at the SGF store …

[Jerry Overstreet]

FWIW, I use a Shubb on dobro but I have a couple bullet bars for lap steel. A Black Rajah and a Chase. Both of these are tapered and have just a great feel when playing lap style.

I dont think they're made now, but they sometimes show up in used for sale posts around the 'net.

[Erv Niehaus]

You can still buy a tapered titanium bar at www.arthursmusic.com

[Fred Treece]

The flat end of a Stevens bar makes for an easier and more pronounced pull-off and cleaner hammer-on. A bullet-nose bar makes it easier to move back and forth across the strings. The Shubb SP3 attempts to compromise.

[Noah Miller]

I find it easier to do everything with a Stevens bar - especially slants. The cutouts on the side allow for much greater control.

[Gary Meixner]

Ken,

You certainly can use a contoured, Stevens style, tone bar on electric lap steel, and many very accomplished players do. It really depends on the music you you wish to play and what techniques you employ to sound they way you want to sound.

Bluegrass players tend to pick the bar up off the strings often, and play hammer-ons and pull-ofs using the corner of the bar. The shape of the bar tends to make slants more difficult, although many players seem to have no trouble at all.

Players who use a bullet bar tend to keep the bar on the strings and employ a more fluid movement. This requires learning techniques for blocking unwanted string noise while moving the bar from one position to the next. The bar is held in a very relaxed fashion, which can be hard to master, and manipulated with the thumb between straight, forward and reverse slant positions.

Any combination of the these two basic approaches are acceptable in my opinion, it just depends on the music you wish to play.

The bullet bar is definitely favored by most Hawaiian players for both electric and acoustic styles. The early acoustic styles did feature more lifting the bar and bouncing up the neck which can be challenging with a bullet bar.

I would try both and make as much music as you can with either or both. If you are inspired to play a very specific style then concentrate on using the bar that allows you to most easily learn the required techniques.

I use a bullet bar almost exclusively for both the resonator and electric steel guitar. I don't play any fast fiddle tunes or Bluegrass which I think would require a Steven's style bar. I do make the most of every bad habit that I can.

Early on when learning I did find the polymer coated bars, like what Todd Clinesmith sells to be much easier to hold on to. They are more expensive than a regular polished steel bar, but I think worth it. There is some difference in tone between steel and polymer but I like them both equally.

Best of luck,

Gary

[Steve Lipsey]

You can play minor chords on a GBDGBD dobro tuning with a bullet bar...e.g. strings 1 and 2 on the same fret with the round nose, and string 3 one fret backwith the body of the bar.

[Mark Evans]

I play mostly weissenborn, but have acquired an old Oahu Tonemaster as well. I used the grooved tone bars for years. I dabbled with steel bullet bars, but always found them rolling around on the floor after constantly slipping out of my fingers.

I took a chance on a Rocky Mountain Slide (made out of a variety of Colorado stones). For some reason I’m able to grip these really well… and the tone is excellent. They are smooothe and have a thumb indent for slants. Luna Salida and Crimson Cougar are my faves.

Mark E
Denver

[Ben Alt]

I recently got a Clinesmith 3/4" bar made of delrin (or something similar) and can second that it's much easier to keep ahold of than my chrome bar - I like it a lot, and it's made lifting the bar up a lot more practical for me, but it was a little more than twice the price of a comparable Dunlop bar. I have tried a shubb, and as soon as I wanted to slant or do vibrato in my way, it felt too foreign.


Having monkeyed a few sizes I think that 3/4" bars are the best fit for me on lap steel. Some of the larger ones for pedal steel were hard to move around, slant and do single note stuff with. Playing with a heavy bar that makes a lot of noise can be a real drag.

I'm also of the opinion that a bar is one of those investments where the more you spend the better the playing experience, more so than other kinds of gear.

[Rick Aiello]

The Rolls Royce of bars … made from the industrial ceramic: Zirconia

viewtopic.php?t=369329&sid=d870b0defd45 ... 1441cc2f6d

I just got a Jerry Byrd size for my birthday … 2 7/8” x 3/4”

Here’s my 3 … a 15/16” Bill Stafford / Ed Packard original , a 7/8” Zirctone and my new JB




Here’s Billy Robinson putting on a “Master Class” in slant bar technique with a Bill Stafford / Ed Packard zirconia bar …

https://youtu.be/vbyMAnhFyl8?si=2nw5Vb5-iq21nzcP

[Nic Neufeld]

Playing dobro style, vs Hawaiian and related styles, will make a big difference. The bullet bar is exceptional (required?) for a lot of styles where you need to do odd slants. Eg the split bar slant, where you place the round nose of the bar in between two adjacent strings, while slanting to a lower fret for a lower string position. The round nose of the bar allows you to do that without going out of tune...you can play two strings on the same fret, while playing the lower string on a different fret. I think that may be what Steve L was referencing. In C6 world, it is pretty useful for 7th chords on the 2,3,5 strings.

I'm not sure but its an open question on reverse slants...I've never tried doing them with the dobro style bars. They aren't easy to master with a bullet bar but the motion that you do (using the thumb on the base detent to push it outward) doesn't seem easy / possible with some of the dobro style bars.

[Douglas Schuch]

I think what Fred Treece said is what I've found, to which I'll add that if you like to tilt the bar for single-notes, a lap dawg or similar dobro-type bar makes that much easier. I actually prefer to use a Long Dawg bar on my dobro after trying a number of different ones. I don't play lap steel much - but went back and forth between the bullet bars I use on pedal steel and the Long Dawg.

[David M Brown]

Playing dobro style, vs Hawaiian and related styles, ...

Your comments are well said!

BTW, I only use a round bullet bar....but I don't play bluegrass dobro per se.

When I do play acoustic steel with old-time players I still use the bullet bar and mostly A6 tuning.

I wish there was a "like" button as many of the posts in favor of the round bar were also worth reading.

[Brooks Montgomery]

That’s the cool thing about steel—you can use whatever sounds right to you and works in your hand: bottleneck, pocket knife, spark plug socket, metal spoon, butter knife, bullet bar, ceramic bar. Shubb, Beard, Dunlop, Scheerhorn….

Heck, Robert Randolph uses a Stevens style bar on a 13 string pedal steel.

[David Knutson]

I'm a fan of the Shubb SP1 with it's rounded nose, plus finger slots. I switch ends from rounded to flat, depending on what style or instrument I'm playing. Also, at 3-1/4 inches, it's plenty long enough for 8 or even 10 string. Works for me, anyways.

[Lloyd Graves]

That’s the cool thing about steel—you can use whatever sounds right to you and works in your hand.

It's also one of the most frustrating things about learning the steel! There is no "right" way, so we're all out there trial and error-ing as we learn, which is costly in dollars and time. But once you get over that frustration, it's freeing to know that whatever you settle on for you is fine. At least it was for me.

After a few other bars, I settled on a Dunlop 919 or 920. I'm happy enough that I don't feel the need to spend money on anything else for a while.

Good luck!

[Tim Whitlock]

I'm not sure but its an open question on reverse slants...I've never tried doing them with the dobro style bars. They aren't easy to master with a bullet bar but the motion that you do (using the thumb on the base detent to push it outward) doesn't seem easy / possible with some of the dobro style bars.

I agree with you Nic. Reverse slants with a rail bar are practically impossible with the standard bullet bar technique. There is no place for the thumb to grab onto. The only way I could do reverse slants with a rail bar is to cock the wrist at an extreme angle with the thumb splayed out away from the bar. A very tricky move that caused me to abandon the rail bar for lap steel.

[George Piburn]

Just a thought from an old timer -

I always was told by the Greats that a Round Bullet Nosed is considered a Tone Bar,

and all of those variations of Grip bars are most commonly called a Stevens - or - Dobro Bar even though there are many new brands now.

The Closest to a Real Tone Bar I've experienced is the Shubb with the turned up Nose area. They do Angles (Slants) accurately, just don't let go or try to use only 1 finger.

[Bill Groner]

You might want to check out this Stevens bar. That bar is under $30......pretty sure it's the hand holding the bar that makes the difference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsRLA8D90-g

[Rick Aiello]

There is a third option:

https://youtu.be/GJR_mGi0IfA?si=C1Hm5XggW62nZObU

I used a “Flattie” at a couple of HSGA conventions …

https://youtu.be/w6Jh5g2pRv8?si=F2AUDPnMvGkhWlse

Duke Ching came up to me once and said … “you know they make round ones now” …

* That’s a triple neck made by John Abbott in the UK that Peachy is playing …

[Rick Aiello]

Then there was that HSGA convention in Ft. Collins where I used an EG Smith bluegrass bar …

https://gregboyd.com/product/eg-smith-bluegrass-slide/

https://youtu.be/ci3n4G-zVMs?si=yFU6a3SZvubb47Xp

I really like the Smith bar, Shubb SP1 and a nice flattie …. But I always end up going back to the JB sized 3/4” bullet bar

[Nic Neufeld]

There is a third option:

https://youtu.be/GJR_mGi0IfA?si=C1Hm5XggW62nZObU

* That’s a triple neck made by John Abbott in the UK that Peachy is playing …

I remember people years ago making jokes about having a triple or quad neck and tuning them all the same and jumping around between them just to impress the audience, and I took it to be that, a joke...but are my eyes deceiving or is this chap doing -precisely that-? Hats off to him either way!