split tuning for E lower / C pedal ?

[Andrew Frost]

I have a GFI ultra with no split tuning screws.

I'm thinking of adding a rod so that the C pedal can be used, split, in tune, while Es are lowered.
The C pedal would then ideally provide C# and F on strings 5&4 respectively, when split with the E lever.

I can get away with it presently, with a little left hand intonation tweaking, with no rod added. The resulting F on string 4 is about 10 cents sharper than I'd like though.

Any tips on this process are greatly appreciated!
Thanks
Andy

[Mike DiAlesandro]

Don't you like your F lever?

[Fred Treece]

Ricky Davis or Tucker Jackson might have some insight for you, Andrew.

I’ve been waiting for somebody to try this and see if it is worth the effort.

Mike, the F lever is of no use if you are holding C pedal down and want to keep string 5 ringing (C#) while changing the suspended 4th on string 4 to the major 3rd (F#-F) on a C# major chord. Also, the split change would provide a major 7th when playing the B+C minor chord (F#m/M7).

[Jerry Overstreet]

Extra rod method. Connect a pull rod from the E lower lever to the C pedal. Tune the combination to F when both engaged with the lower nylon.

Use the extra rod nylon to tune the normal E to Eb lower back to true.

Won't that work?

I've used this method for other splits but never with this combination. I'm still trying to envision it in my noggin.

[Bengt Erlandsen]

I have the C pedal 4th string split with the E's-Eb lever on all my pedal-steels. They all do have a "split-tuning"(lowering limit) screw so I dont need the extra pull-rod for the E-Eb lever.

On my S12extE9 i even have a RKR2 that raise 8 string E-F# that is split to an F note with the normal LKR E's to Eb.
Giving a F note on the 8string (3rd) and an Eb note on the 4string(9th)



To use the extra rod method, one need a guitar that has a triple raise feature since 1 hole is for the C pedal 4th string raise, another hole is for the E-F lever raise and the third hole would be for the E-Eb lever (adjustment raise) so the Eb note will sound in tune after the split is tuned correctly to give an F note.

Step 1
Engage both the C pedal and the E-Eb lever and use the nylon tuner on the E-Eb lever lowering rod to adjust the 4th string to the correct F note.

The E-Eb lever by itself will now lower somewhere flat of Eb.

Step 2
Use the nylon tuner on the extra raise rod for the 4th string raise to adjust the split note by the two rods on the E-Eb lever cross-shaft (one lowering rod and one raise rod for the 4th string) to give the correct Eb note.

The trick is to get the right amount of movement on the rod that does the raise adjustment so you dont get a weird halfstop somewhere on the lowering lever. The raise adjustment rod probably doesnt need alot of travel to do the adjustment needed but hopefully it is possible to sort it out by experimenting with how close the rod need to be in relation to the cross-shaft.

Not sure if it is possible to wedge in some sort of lowering limit stop for the E-Eb lowering changer so it stops at Eb and wont lower further down no matter what. That would get rid of the extra rod needed.

B.Erlandsen
Zumsteel S12extE9 7+7

[Jon Light]

The two split tuning methods are different but they basically present the same degree of additional procedure to the tuning process.

I did a lot of work on a local fellow's ancient steel. He is an advanced musician but a steel guitar beginner. When then opportunity arose, I helped him to buy a wonderful modern steel. He is an intuitive player and he is forging his own way. Right after he went home with the new steel (G2) he called me, upset, because the C + E lower which (just by chance) was in tune on the old guitar was way off on the new one. I tried to explain that any splits with any semblance to being in-tune would be purely coincidental unless one were to use the split tuners. The G2 does indeed have the screws.....BUT!!....

He didn't want to know about buts. He brought the guitar to me, I set it up for the split.....BUT....

A week later he called me because it was all out of whack. That's the problem -- you lose the ability to simply tune the lower lever. You need to learn how to tune the splits. My guy has zero mechanical interest and glazes over when I try to explain that if you are tuning just the lever you need to tune it at the split screw -- don't touch the nylon lower nut. He is satisfied that I will fix it when he messes it up. I like him and I care more about his guitar playing well than I do about my advice being ignored.

Long story just for the purpose of "warning -- you have just made the guitar more complicated to tune"

Incidentally, I've introduced this split to my own setup. Reluctantly (for the above reasons) but it definitely is useful. And I did forget a couple of times when I went to tweak it.

Sorry for the detour.

[Mike DiAlesandro]

Ricky Davis or Tucker Jackson might have some insight for you, Andrew.

I’ve been waiting for somebody to try this and see if it is worth the effort.

Mike, the F lever is of no use if you are holding C pedal down and want to keep string 5 ringing (C#) while changing the suspended 4th on string 4 to the major 3rd (F#-F) on a C# major chord. Also, the split change would provide a major 7th when playing the B+C minor chord (F#m/M7).

Thanks Fred,

I was kinda joking about the F lever. I do see the advantage of the movement of the F# - F change while susaining the C# note.

A sound clip of this change would be interesting to hear, maybe someone that utilizes this change can post one?

[Jerry Overstreet]

yes, you need to color the ends of the nylons differently, or maybe better just the extra rod nylon, so that you don't get them confused. Like a felt tipped pen.

I get what you are saying though Jon. It's easy to do.

Screws are the cats pajamas, but not every guit has them.

I'll have to add something else. People are, in general, confused about splits. There's only 2 things to remember with either method once the open note is in tune.

1. Use the normal lower nylon to tune the split note.

2. Use the extra rod to tune the final lower. We need to think of the extra rod feature, or the end screw, as the boss of lowers.

[Fred Treece]

This is from a 2010 post. The link at the bottom is no longer valid. Patrick is still on the Forum, has lotsa YouTube’s.

Mike D.—-I kinda figured, but it’s hard to tell sometimes

1) split screws


2) extra rod



see animated diagrams at:
http://plaffrat.chez-alice.fr/materiel/split/split.html