Emmons Changer Screws... stainless steel?

[Brian Spratt]

I'm looking to replace some or maybe all of the tuning screws that go in the changer end of an Emmons push-pull. The local hardware store has black oxide and stainless steel, but the original screws are neither of those. Where can I get screws that would be made like the original ones?

[Chris Lucker]

You would be better served if you show us what your screws look like.

Go look at McMaster Carr.

Your screws will be harder to find if they are the old Nylok with the channel filled with the nylon strip. I was fortunate enough to find an original box in a traditional hardware store (meaning a store that does not sell its screws in little prepackaged plastic bags, but instead hand-counts them out of a box). I wish I had more because I go through a lot of those screws each year in restorations.

You can pick your cap screw from McMaster and treat with red Loctite or even nail polish. You don't need to cover all the threads -- just a lengthwise stripe.

Or, you can do as Emmons did in the late Sixties and also in the earliest guitars and add a compression springs to keep the screws from vibrating away from where you want them to stay.

[Brian Spratt]

Yeah I realize you can't get the nylok anymore. I'm just looking for standard 6-32 7/8" cap screws. The local shop has stainless steel and black oxide... the stock screws on these guitars were neither, thus my inquiry. I realize I'm splitting hairs here.. but its something that has caught my curiosity.

[Chris Lucker]

Go look at McMaster Carr and pick your finish to match. They have the screws in more than a half dozen materials. I cannot picture yours, but if yours are not black, nor one of the stainless alloys, they are likely zinc plated or cadmium plated. McMaster has those and many more.

[Brian Spratt]

Cadmium plated maybe?? Ok, interesting. Here's an old picture of mine I had handy.

[Chris Lucker]

You want the zinc plated or the black. They are cheaper.

I like the ones with the ball ends.

[Ivan Funk]

I'm at the same place is this restoration here as you Brian.
I'm following your progress. Very cool.
I did the exact same thing yesterday - found Ace only had stainless or black.
Then just last night I remembered McMaster Carr has everything imaginable. Got distracted and ordered some aluminum angle and other steel drill rod etc...
Fast shipping too.

Thanks also to you Chris for sharing your knowledge so often on this forum. Very helpful and educational.

Looking forward to more updates on your rebuild Brian.
Love the look of that blue finish.
What year is it?

[Chris Lucker]

I have just contacted Nylok to determine of they have any old stock screws with the nylok/nylon strip the length of the threads, and if not, what kind of nylon material was used?
I will see how feasible it is to restore the original screws that have let go of their nylok strips or the strips have been lost.
As an alternative, I can machine the slots in the cap screws, but that would be drudgery. I do not have CNC, but come to think of it, it would not even be a job for CNC because the passes would be so short. It would take more time to locate each screw in its jig.
The job would be swifter with a side milling cutter than an end mill if a slot of constant depth is not necessary.

[Ivan Funk]

Chris what do you think of these?

Looks like the nylon patch is only good for a few adjustments before they stop being effective?

Also - mabey the patch is too small vs running the whole length so - no good...

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/cap-s ... cap+screws

[Brian Spratt]

I'm at the same place is this restoration here as you Brian.
I'm following your progress. Very cool...

Looking forward to more updates on your rebuild Brian.
Love the look of that blue finish.
What year is it?

Thanks Ivan. I am planning to have it finished up here in the next couple of days, just spending an hour or two here and there not wanting to rush anything. If you're interested, I'm documenting all of my work in a very detailed guide I'm calling "The Ambitious Amateur’s Guide to Removing, Cleaning, and Reinstalling an Emmons Push-Pull Changer". I plan to share it once I've completed the project. To my knowledge, no such comprehensive step-by-step guide or instructions like this exist... and I do have Clem Schmitz's book and videos as well as a video Bobbe Seymour produced and those are excellent resources on their own but not quite as step-by-step and detailed as I (and maybe others) would like... so I'm doing it myself. I spent a tremendous amount of time and effort searching and reading the forum and watching those videos, etc. and I've tried to distill all of that knowledge into a simple guide. I'm very surprised no one has done it yet (that I know of).

As for the year of my Emmons, I really don't know but Kelcey O'Neil once told me it looked like a late 70's or early 80's. The endplates, I believe, are not original and look like aftermarket Emmons SD-10 type end plates. The guitar however was originally a D-10. Consequently, the endplates do not have a serial number for dating.

[Ivan Funk]

Very nice.
I rebuilt the changer a few years ago.
I'm only doing it again because I did a complete disassemble this time and thought while it was out I'd clean it. I started looking into replacing the tuning screws and found your post. I just ordered a bunch from McMaster-Carr.
I'm replacing all the rods as the old ones were beat up from years of someone adjusting stuff 1000 times I guess. Also filling unused screw holes in the underside.
I'm going to leave the cabinet finish as is. Just drop fill some chips and maybe put a few new coats of nitro over the old lacquer.
It would be cool if you made the changer rebuild guide available for anyone to use.

[Wayne Brown]

If i may here is another option
https://outwestcountry.ca/index.php/pro ... ng-screws/
We also have some used ones
https://outwestcountry.ca/index.php/pro ... -screws-2/
thanks
wayne

[Brian Spratt]

If i may here is another option
https://outwestcountry.ca/index.php/pro ... ng-screws/
We also have some used ones
https://outwestcountry.ca/index.php/pro ... -screws-2/
thanks
wayne

Thanks Wayne. Are the new screws 1" or 7/8" length? I think those were the two sizes that came on the original guitars. And is that the same nylok stuff that came on the original Emmons screws?

[Wayne Brown]

These are Brand new unused original Emmons Push Pull screws they are 1" and Came From Al Brisco's stock
thanks
wayne

[Roger Crawford]

What are being used in the new Emmons? Would they sell some?

[Chris Lucker]

All you need, if you are not trying to replicate or replace the cap screws with the nylon Nylok strips nearly the full length of the threads is a box of cap screws and a bottle of red Loctite or red nail polish and you will make screws that look just like the newer Emmons screws.

[Ivan Funk]

Thanks Chris.
That's what I'm going to do.
New cap screws arriving tomorrow.

[Brian Spratt]

Green nailpolish. Didn’t have red and this color matches the guitar. It works very well.

[Ivan Funk]

Custom!
Nice.

[Jerry Overstreet]

...and then there's this vibra mate thread sealer stuff: clickhere

[Ivan Funk]

That stuff looks good Jerry.

Some type of thread locker vs compression springs - which is better?
Pros and cons?

[Brian Spratt]

I ordered the vibramate VC-3 suggested above. I'll compare it to the nailpolish approach and report back. I'm also going to try some stainless steel screws from the local ace hardware because they look nearly the same as the stock ones. I'm trying to think of any reasons why stainless steel wouldn't work just fine... I think its going to be a bit softer but for this application I don't see how that would make a difference.

[Chris Lucker]

Here is the original Nylok that Emmons used for the changer tuning as well as the pedal stops -- except the pedal stop screws that are threaded into the stop bar and not the pedal crank are just plain cap screws..

Nylok returned my call via email and they say they can provide.

Connie Callahan from sales says "Our strip material is able nylon LP410 6/6."
Her phone is (714) 481-2008

[Chris Lucker]

After this post, I ordered three gross of the Nylok screws (the originals as shown in my photos with the threaded inserts with nylon strips).
I got 396.
Those following the thread and myself have taken all but 47.
Is there any other interest?

[Brian Spratt]

Chris, I'll take a set of 10. I sent you a pm.