E9th String breakage question

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 7 Nov 2006 7:18 pm

Which modern Pedal Steel Guitar breaks less strings because of Changer design?...I like the way Williams looks but I never had one

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Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 7 Nov 2006 8:02 pm

I don't think there is any single design better or worse nowdays. If string breakage was any kind of issue with any particular brand, there would be all kinds of talk about it.

A. J. Schobert · Post by **A. J. Schobert** » 7 Nov 2006 8:08 pm

Brad alot has to do with how aggresive you play, there is no way to tell wich builder has a better design, I softened my touch and that seems to work for me and my guitar is a few months old, I think this is a myth for the mythbusters jamie and adam will have to let us know.

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 7 Nov 2006 8:46 pm

I prevent string breakage by changing strings once a month and using a .012P for the high G#. Works for me. Gone a year without breaking one so far.

Jim Bob Sedgwick · Post by **Jim Bob Sedgwick** » 7 Nov 2006 9:47 pm

Use Mother's mag and aluminum polish on the changer fingers and you can stop breakage by about 50%, guaranteed. I have played the same set on mine until they don't need to be blocked because they are so dead with no breakage.

Jody Sanders · Post by **Jody Sanders** » 7 Nov 2006 10:16 pm

I have a pretty full schedule and I change the 3rd., 4th, 5th, and 6th every week. Every 4 weeks I change them all. I also use a .012 on the third string. I use .014, .018, and .022P on 4, 5, and 6. It may be a little "overkill" , but it beats breaking a string on the job and a fresh .014 keeps in tune better up the neck. Jody.

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 8 Nov 2006 6:12 am

I use a keyless with about 1/2 inch overhang.
Strings will go dead before they break.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 8 Nov 2006 7:16 am

Bill Rudolph's Williams Guitars have less of a string angle on his patented changer. The string is bent less when the levers and pedals are activated. It helps alleviate the problem with string breakage. It makes changing strings a lot easier also.

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 8 Nov 2006 7:36 am

Erv, thanks for your reply. Just by looking at the way Bill constructed the changer would lead one to believe that his design is far ahead of the crowd as far as string breakage goes. I was just looking for confirmation from Williams players. Common sense would lead one to believe that less bending of the string at the changer would lead to longer string life. My Mullen is pretty good but I believe that Williams is probably better as far as string breakage...again Erv, thanks for taking time to reply.
Brad

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 8 Nov 2006 7:46 am

Hey A.J. thanks for your reply. I'm not talking about playing aggressive or soft, I,m talking about the same player, playing different models the same way.

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 8 Nov 2006 7:51 am

Jim, have you played all the different brands of steels for a year or so to draw your conclusion or is your conclusion based on hearsay?

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 8 Nov 2006 8:14 am

My MSA Millennium with a 24" neck seems to break strings less often than my previous Zum and Fessy, both with 24 1/4" necks. Just an impression, not a scientific test.

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 8 Nov 2006 8:18 am

Hey Curt, I believe you've found the answer. With the keyless design you can concentrate on the music and not worry about a string popping on you in the middle of a well rehearsed solo and making you look bad in front of a crowd. I think the demise of pedal steel in many bands was due to "band leaders" not tolerating an instrument that broke strings along with the detuning problems that occur from string stretching.

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 8 Nov 2006 8:26 am

Hey Billy Carr, that is one heck of a string you got there. I think the real question becomes: How many hours a day do you play that guitar where the string lasted one year?
It really comes down to playing time.

P Gleespen · Post by **P Gleespen** » 8 Nov 2006 8:28 am

I was under the impression that the Excel and Anapegs are by far the best as far as string breakage goes.

They both have changers that don't bend the string at all, from what I understand.

Didn't Carl Dixon have the same 3rd string on his Excel at one point for over a year?

If you do a search, you'll probably find some discussion about it.

Edited to add:

I have never played or even seen either of these brands in person, this is all based on what I've read on the forum.[This message was edited by P Gleespen on 08 November 2006 at 08:29 AM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 8 Nov 2006 10:30 am

String breakage is very rare on my Williams. I put off changing my strings a lot, often playing them beyond the dead zone. I think that the high G# has broken twice since I bought this guitar over two years ago. It wouldn't have broken at all if I had changed strings when the set went flat. The strings that broke had been on the guitar for over 3 months!

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David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 8 Nov 2006 11:58 am

With all due respect to your enthusiasm for keyless heads, Brad, I don't think anyone will buy the idea that string breakage and detuning have ever been so big a problem that they caused the demise of pedal steel. If that were true, keyless players would have replaced the others; and we certainly haven't seen that happen. I have never had a modern keyed pedal steel that broke strings so often the problem couldn't be totally avoided by simply replacing the high G# string before any lengthy performance. The only time I have broken strings during a performance was when I was lazy and reckless and didn't change strings when I knew I should. I don't have anything against keyless steels, and maybe they have some minor advantages. But let's keep the discussion real.

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 8 Nov 2006 12:15 pm

b0b, I know you have had several Williams Guitars..are you talking about the Keyed or Keyless heads

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 8 Nov 2006 12:31 pm

David, I have great respect for your knowledge about the Pedal Steel and did not mean to imply that keyless was the only way to go..a lot of people say they like the tone from the Keyed heads better. I was only trying to find which brand of steel whether keyed or keyless, had less string breakage when played by the same player, the same way over a period of a year or so. I remember reading a post by a very top notch player saying he got rid of a certain brand because he could not keep the 3rd string from breaking on the E9th..he also said the C6th neck was great. I do think the string breakage issue is very important and some of the builders and inventors have made advancements in that area.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 8 Nov 2006 1:15 pm

Brad,
I forgot to mention that with the changer designed as it is on the Williams, if you do break a string, if will not fall down in the changer but drop to the floor behind the guitar.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 8 Nov 2006 1:19 pm

Absolute hearsay.

I don't think anyone but a dealer will have extensive "seat time" with a multitude of different steels - at least enough to experience repeated string breakage with each one.

The subject comes up now and again, and the consensus is that less break angle=less breakage...except scale length, gage, bridge material and such all enter into it as well.

Basically, it's pretty much seemed to be a non-issue with modern steels. I've never read a "are you aware that the Flugelblunker steel breaks strings more often (or less often) than any other on the current market?" post.

Try doing a search on string breakage. There's just not a ton of controversy or discussion, except in regards to vintage steels.

P Gleespen · Post by **P Gleespen** » 8 Nov 2006 1:32 pm

Try doing a search on string breakage.

I did a search on "Anapeg break" and "Excel break" and found a bunch of people saying that they don't break strings as much as other guitars.

Any of you Excel or Anapeg owners wanna weigh in here? Is it really true?

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 8 Nov 2006 2:12 pm

I think that bad strings are usually the culprit for me. I believe I've broken more strings getting them up to pitch than I have actually playing. Generally, if it'll last a set or two, it will go a month or two!

The fingers do need to be in good shape though, and it doesn't hurt to place a small drop of oil on an offending string at the top of the finger, and then "wick" off the excess with a paper towel or napkin.[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 08 November 2006 at 02:12 PM.]

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 8 Nov 2006 2:13 pm

ERV, That is another advantage of a great design...the ball end falling into the changer of Steels is a big problem that Williams solved...thanks again.

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 8 Nov 2006 2:25 pm

Hey Jim, Like you say, it is very difficult to make statements unless we would have some kind of quality control department which we do not have. That is the reason I framed my question in a postive way and asked: which Steel people think has less string breakage because of design. People have even designed strings with a shorter wrap so that the string lies on the pulley and not on the wrap. Jeff Newman told people about that method many years ago.