New player help needed on scales

[Bruce W. Roberts]

I am an on-again off-again guitar player and bass player for several years. Play by ear. Know the chords on the instruments and have a good ear to follow most any song. Don’t know a lick about music theory or how to read music. Played steel for 2 years (but that was 27 years ago).

With the steel there is much teachings about scales and memorization thereof. I know this is important and I want to get it right. My problem is understanding how to apply this knowledge and memorization work.

After 2 weeks of newbie practice, I can follow most any song in the major chords and know when the song goes to a minor. I can find the string or even the chord by ear.

I do not want to shortcut and hurt my development but when trying to memorize the scales, even playing the “Do-rami…etc” as an exercise I am not “getting it” as to how to apply that knowledge to playing. The ear is natural for me but this other stuff isn’t. Knowing each note in a major scale is important; however translating that to playing is not registering with me yet. I simply didn’t utilize this when I played guitar and bass.

Hence, I am having paralysis by analysis.

Any helpful comments on how I can apply this knowledge and even a more efficient way of learning this knowledge would certainly be a help to me.

Thanks in advance.

[Larry Jamieson]

Bruce,
Think of your scale in terms of numbers, rather than Do Re Me. That is where the number system for chords comes from.

C D E F G A B C
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Now take a simple melody: Joy the World, for example, starts out with major scale backward: 8, 765, 4 3,2, 1
5 6, 6 7, 7 8. Now train your ear to hear scale steps,
and you will begin to learn where to find those melodies using the scales you learn. Start with something simple, like Mary had a little lamb. 3 2 1 2 3 3 3, 2 2 2, 3 5 5,
3 2 1 2 3 3 3, 3 2 2 3 2 1. Hope this helps.

[Dan Beller-McKenna]

The "usefulness" of scales is fairly abstract. Mainly, it can be helpful to know where notes are all over the fretboard (pedaled or open). But the main use of scales in my way of thinking is to help connect different areas on the neck, to help you move up and down the neck as well as across the strings. I would say that learning harmonized scales up and down and the neck and across the strings will make your fills and solos more fluid and musical.

Having said that, learning scales to the point that you can play patterns within them is helpful on any instrument, both for reading music (or replicating lines you hear on a recording) and for improvising. I must confess that I have never done this as much as I should, which simply makes things harder than they need to be sometimes. A recent case in point happened for me on C6, but the point applies equally to E9. A band I play with added the Ernest Tubb version of "Oklahoma Hills" to the set list a while back (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvCg4l6tyu0). Along with the two tele players, I picked out a melodic strand in the intro. It's more or less a harmonized version of the melody of the chorus so, no biggie. The ending, however, is quite different. The track concludes (2:26) with a stock riff (in three part harmony) playing groupings within a scale. More or less like this:





More diligent musicians than I (like one of our tele players) will have practiced scales on their instruments, and patterns within scales, out the wazoo, so that they can just play this automatically. I have no trouble hearing what the pattern is, but, as the tuning on the steel is not symmetrical (i.e., the intervals vary from string to string), I had to stop and work out how to play this, and it still does not come entirely naturally.

Perhaps more importantly: for players with scales and scale patterns at their fingertips, throwing in something like this (or, more likely, a small segment of it) while improvising is quite easy. Of course, you don't want to overuse scale patterns in your soloing, but there is a time and place for it. If you haven't internalized the musical (i.e., scale) patterns, you will be confined to what the tuning of the instrument dictates. This is something I lament in my own playing. Ideally one should be able to utilize both the instrument's idiomatic patterns (dictated by tuning, copedant, etc.) and musical patterns that are independent of the peculiarities of the instrument. Knowing scales and scale patterns inside and out will help make that happen.

[Ian Rae]

I also play brass instruments where scale-bashing is part of the daily routine. What I find different about pedal steel is that the 7 (leading) note is not as often used as the others in rock, blues or country, so a complete scale doesn't feel familiar or bring much satisfaction.
Besides, in the open position there is a choice of 7s so you have to practise both, which is doubly unrewarding!

[Bruce W. Roberts]

Appreciate the replies. I will keep plugging along.

[Donny Hinson]

From my experience, pedal steel these days has been relegated to mainly backup and pads, and as such, scales are not really a priority. But, if you contemplate getting into situations where you will be playing more leads (i.e., many instrumentals), that may change. Short of joining a band, I'd say the best "practice" you can do is to play along with recordings, and record what you do. That way, you can listen back and be your own constant critic. Also, you can't learn to play well in a vacuum, so do not overlook the importance getting some one-on-one lessons, and going out to see and listen to other steelers.

[Ken Metcalf]

Bruce
PM me and I will send you some lesson material from San Antonio Steel Guitar Association.
Ken Metcalf

[Dave Campbell]

learning harmonized scales going up the fretboard on different string groups is a really good place to start on pedal steel. jeff newman's up from the top series does a really good job of showing how these tie in with your chord pockets.

i think you'll get the most bang for your buck scale wise if you learn to play harmonized scales with a and b pedals on 5 and 3rd strings, and then going to 5 and 8 and using your a pedal and e levers.

you can mess around with scales over a drone to really hear what's going on:

http://www.dronetonetool.com

doing this will also really improve your intonation.

[Jim Kennedy]

Don't over think scales. Like the six string guitar, scales patterns and chord progressions are moveable. The Newman "Up From The Top" series will help tremendously with harmonised scales. I found Jeff Wright's explanation of scales quite helpful. His video lessons are available on the Sierra Steel Guitar website. Once you grasp the basics in one key, start changing keys. Once you learn "the patterns" playing in any key becomes much easier.

[Fred Treece]

Understanding the major scale is the first step in applying the notes in it as melodies to chord progressions.

If you take the notes of the C major scale (CDEFGABC, your basic do-re-mi) and start on D instead, you have a different sounding scale (DEFGABCD), starting with “Re” instead of “Do”. This is a scale you might use over a Dm chord, with the notes DFA representing the Dm triad.

You can do this with every note in the C major scale, and apply it to its corresponding chord. On the pedal steel, all you have to do is find your octaves and play the notes between them. SUPER EASY....not.

Here is a website with some excellent information on scales and modes and a few hints at applying them on E9 psg.
http://steelguitaramerica.com/instructi ... odes.shtml

[Ian Rae]

I endorse what Jim says about Jeff Newman's course. Harmonised scales are much more interesting than plain ones.

[Greg Thompson]

For your added info: Jeff Newman's "Just Play The Melody" is brilliant for teaching scale patterns. Jeffran College.com has it

[Fred Treece]

DO NOT try all these suggestions at once. Pick one out and stick with it for a while before you decide if it’s working or not. If you really want to understand it, you’ll need a course. You could do worse than looking into Paul Franklin’s method.
https://modernmusicmasters.com/announce ... -page-pfm/