Advice on a new lapsteel (used for rhythm)

Nathan Burns · Post by **Nathan Burns** » 23 Jun 2016 8:33 am

Hi guys! This is my first post so I hope I'm putting in the right place.

I am a steel player from Canada (pedal, and non) who plays in a few groups around town with styles ranging from rock to country to RnB. On top of taking gigs backing up other singers I also play in a folky kinda group with my sister where we both sing and I usually play my dobro as a rhythm instrument to accompany my singing. I have a lace sensor reso pick up installed and amplified it sounds great, but as most dobro players who have attempted to play with a drummer and a bass with some volume in certain venues, feedback is the bane of your existence. You can dump off low end to try to help, but it really thins your tone.

So I have been shopping for a solid body alternative. I have a cheapy Fender FS-52 (strat pick up) lapsteel that I play through a Princeton Reverb (for that guitar). It sounds great but the scale being shorter and the small size is just not nearly as comfortable to strum as a dobro and sometimes it can sound a bit too bright for rhythm imo.

Price is always a consideration, but I'd rather spend a bit more to get something I appreciate than cheaping out and having to buy multiple guitars finding what I like. I have recently seen these Asher Lapsteels that Ben Harper plays that look like they might be a good option, but they seem to have either cheaper chinese models or expensive N. American made models and I'm not sure how big the quality difference is. I see the chinese ones have some cheap tuners on them.

So any advice on a solid body dobro alternative? I'd appreciate any help. Here's an old video that my sister and I made to show the style I play in (minus the band in this video)

Thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKFnx7C4UHo

Steve Green · Post by **Steve Green** » 23 Jun 2016 8:58 am

The Gold Tone LS-6 comes highly recommended. They are basically clones of the old Oahu Tonemaster. They are 25" scale. I've never handled one personally, but Gold Tone has a reputation for quality. I've owned 2 of their dobro's and a ukulele; and have been quite pleased with them.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 23 Jun 2016 10:23 am

for that style in your video i think i'd try to stick with the dobro and figure out how to make it work.
it sounds good. the lapsteel won't blend in as well.

Stu Schulman · Post by **Stu Schulman** » 23 Jun 2016 11:25 am

Nathan,You and your sister are really wonderful!!

James Kerr · Post by **James Kerr** » 23 Jun 2016 12:16 pm

Stu Schulman wrote:Nathan,You and your sister are really wonderful!!

I agree with both comments, I would develop what you have and forget about loud Bass & Drums, you have a very good thing going here.

James.

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 23 Jun 2016 12:21 pm

I'd think the Asher Electro Hawaiian Junior would be a great choice given your style of music.

Bill Sinclair · Post by **Bill Sinclair** » 23 Jun 2016 12:48 pm

Nice stuff! I'd have to agree with Chris about the dobro on that song. I think if you try to strum a lap steel like that it's just going to be a rumbling mess. Add a bass and kick drum and it will just get worse.

The type of playing with licks and double stops that you're doing in this video though would sound great on lap steel with a band:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPhy1C5hd9I

You might just have to mix it up.

Nathan Burns · Post by **Nathan Burns** » 23 Jun 2016 6:19 pm

Hey thanks for the kind words you guys!

I do love the sound of the dobro for that style of tune, although I've resigned to the fact that making it work every time with a band is actually a pretty tough thing to do. I've just been to too many gigs now where the feedback starts to kick in and you either have to lower your volume to kill it or dump low end and sacrifice tone. I bought a pre amp 3 band eq called a Radial PZ Pre which made a world of difference, but even it sometimes doesn't do the trick.
An old sound guy friend of mine told me once that dobros are loud acoustic and hard to get loud amplified and in the seven years I've been gigging with bands I've seen it over and over. When I play with just my sister and I it's no problem though.

The Goldtone looks like it might be a good choice, but those Ashers seem to sound pretty good too. I like that you have a choice of multiple pick up options which I don't see very often in a lap steel. I will continue to research and let you guys know if I find any neat discoveries. Here's a video of Ben Harper playing one of those Ashers and strumming it with overdrive that sounds pretty good. Not a clean tone like a dobro, but it might be something usable for rockier songs we have been writing

(noticed the strummed around the 27:00 mark)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5nR1xwvO7k

Thanks again folks!

Mark Evans · Post by **Mark Evans** » 23 Jun 2016 8:47 pm

Weissenborn.
Can give you that solid midrangey and acoustic buzz. I have a Mag Mic sound hole pickup in one and a Baggs M1a in another. Driven thru a verb pedal, Freeze pedal (the coolest!) and a Memory Boy delay. I can play it loud with no feed back. Can be dreamy or acoustic rhythmic.

Bob Blair · Post by **Bob Blair** » 23 Jun 2016 11:06 pm

Hey Nathan, I'm a fan! Have you tried a Fishman with the Aura system? There are a couple kicking around town that you could probably try. I don't have one (yet). You definitely want to check out the Ashers as well.

Peter Lindelauf · Post by **Peter Lindelauf** » 24 Jun 2016 2:29 pm

Great tune and performance.

Nathan Burns · Post by **Nathan Burns** » 24 Jun 2016 5:53 pm

Oh hey Bob! I met you back at that Rob Ickes workshop a few years back. The feeling is mutual. I love your playing!

I have not tried the aura/fishman combo. I will have to do a bit of checking up on it.

Yes I've spent the last couple days watching Asher demo videos and I think my mind is being slowly made up. The question now is do I go for the cheaper chinese Electro Hawaiian Junior and replace the tuners and maybe even the pick ups or do I spend the bigger dollars and get the American made Electro Hawaiian model 1? I might keep my ear to the ground and see if I can find a used Model 1. Sometimes I'm a bit quick to break out the wallet when I get excited about something.

Bob Blair · Post by **Bob Blair** » 24 Jun 2016 6:00 pm

Thanks Nathan!

I am very attracted to the U.S. made ones - it's a couple of acquisitions down the list though for me.

I think Woody has the aura setup - you might want to talk to himâ€¦.I'm sure he'd be glad to show it to you.

John Mulligan · Post by **John Mulligan** » 25 Jun 2016 7:38 am

Hi Nathan. Nice playing on the videos. I hear lots of room for non pedal steel in your material. You can use sustain for great mood effects on steel. It will change your playing. Have you checked out Larkin Poe?

Good luck, post more videos when you incorporate the steel into the music.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 25 Jun 2016 8:37 am

Nathan, I have an Asher Electro-Hawaiian Jr. (pictured below & with my Clinesmith resonator) with upgraded pickups and electronics (Jason Lollar Imperial humbuckers), and it's a butt kicker of a lap steel. And though it is a good value, I don't think that it's in the same league Bill Asher's Electro-Hawaiian Model 1, hand built in his shop in Los Angeles - those are amazing lap steels. And it shouldn't be - the hand builts go for way more money.

That said, for what you and Cadence are doing I agree with staying acoustic, dobro or weissenborn.

And as far your dobro, didn't come across any samples of you playing plugged in with the Lace Sensor but I am going to predict that if I did it's going to sound closer to a lap steel than a dobro.

As others have suggested, the ticket for dobro is the Fishman Nashville pickup (avoid the one we refer to as the Fishman "donut" pickup - not good) run through the Fishman Aura Jerry Douglas pedal. There is a reason why Jerry Douglas, Rob Ickes, Andy Hall and many others are using this setup - nothing even comes close for dobro. Because it actually sounds like a plugged in dobro.

Peter Jacobs · Post by **Peter Jacobs** » 25 Jun 2016 11:24 pm

Nathan - I really enjoy your songs. Both of you have great voices, and I'm digging the feel. Ive got a similar situation, where I end up playing sort of a rhthym guitar role in a mostly electric band. Dobro just wont work for us,as such as I'd like to use it, so I stick with lap steel.

We seem to be able to stay out of each other's way, in terms of frequencies. As far as scale goes, my steels are 22.5 or 23 and I don't seem to have an issue adjusting. But the Gold Tone looks like a good choice that meets your criteria.

Looking forward to hearing more of your music!

Doug Clark · Post by **Doug Clark** » 26 Jun 2016 9:32 am

Great work on that song, Nathan (and Cadence).

Maybe mic the Dobro until you get whatever replaces it? I think somebody said in the comments under the video that you need better audio. Other than that, you sounded very good. (I liked the snow fort and BalconyTV sessions, too.)

You two have another new fan.

Nathan Burns · Post by **Nathan Burns** » 26 Jun 2016 9:21 pm

Much appreciated you guys. Yes, some of those older videos are a bit lower quality, but I do still like those tunes.

And you have given me a lot to think about so far as set ups go. I think I will have to check out this aura system. Mark is right about the dobro sounding more like a lapsteel thorough the lace sensor pick up. It is a beautiful warm tone, but it has none of the metallic sound of a dobro.

I look forward to checking out more on this board. I'll keep you guys updated on my next set up move and am eager to hear yours!

Nathan