Does reverb and delay get in the way?

[Len Amaral]

It seems that there is an ongoing topic for reverbs and delays and we all love the vibe of these effects.

However, there were responses to topics way back where it was mentioned that some players were opting for less or even none of these effects. Blasphemy you say?

Slow songs where you use more sustain with a good dash of reverb & delay to enhance the vibe is great. However, upbeat songs/ jazz/swing or percussive playing I find these effects, especially delay "clouds" the tone a bit from one note to another.

Case in point is the demo with Travis Toy doing a demo for the new Eminence TT-12 speaker where I hear no reverb just the tone of the steel coming through the speaker. Nice sustain, great technique and percussive picking come through.

So, is less really more?

[Jerry Tillman]

reverb gets in the way of delay in my opinion.I read an article once by Buddy Emmons that said the same thing.Wish I could find it.

[John Booth]

I may not speak for others, but for me, as reverb goes up, delay comes down. Sometimes it's just one or the other. Otherwise it sounds muddied up to me.
JB

[Brad Sarno]

I view reverb, sometimes, as a distance controller. If I want the steel to sound near and up front in the mix I will use less or no reverb. If I want it to sound behind and surrounding the voice or front elements of a musical mix, I'll use reverb to create that space and distance. If I want steel to be an atmospheric halo to create an enveloping, dreamy, large soundscape, I'll go for even more and longer reverb.

Psychoacoustically, reverb creates distance and space and "size". Totally dry instruments sound immediately in-your-face or in-your-head. Too dry and it can be intrusive, TOO near, sometimes uncomfortably close. Adding reverb (ambience) tells the ears and brain that the sound source is not right there in your face but instead is far enough away to reflect off the walls and ceiling and can generate energy in the space (the mix). These audio cues tell the brain that the instrument is some distance away from the listener.

For those of us with more advanced reverb units that allow control over the "pre-delay" parameter can really fine tune this perception of distance. It can even trick the brain. A longer pre-delay (more than 45ms) can begin to separate the instrument from the reverb tail and let you have both a big reverb and also bring the perception of the instrument near again. That's one way to unclutter a steel sound while still having a healthy amount of reverb too.


B

[b0b]

I use the reverb in the amp on stage, turn it up for slow songs. I practice without it. I occasionally use delay for an echo effect in time with the music on stage. I don't especially like the sound of any instrument with a lot of delay or reverb. I like to hear a player's hands, not his gadgets.

[MIchael Bean]

I like very little reverb, not too much. I've heard some players use so much that it sounds unrealistic and mushy. Too much can sound out of context with the mix of the rest of the band.

For slow songs where there will lots of held notes, I'll use a digital echo with a fairly long delay, since I won't be playing fast notes.

[Len Amaral]

Brad:

Thank you for the detailed response. It will give me a new prospective to the "feel" of coloring a song with reverb. May have to get my reverb pedal closer to me to manipulate the knobs for specific songs.

B0B:

I am going to take your approach and practice without reverb and go the dry rout.

[Richard Sinkler]

I really don't like to hear delay on a PSG. Reverb, OK... But delay... Not for me.

[Doug Beaumier]

When I use delay I cut back quite a bit on the reverb. Reverb and delay together tends to muddy the waters IMO. Sometimes I shut the reverb off completely when using delay. Then the delay can clearly be heard.

[Richard Sinkler]

The reverb in my amp has a high pitched squeal, so I use my RP155 in the effects loop for only reverb. I've been playing around with adding a tiny bit of delay. You can't really tell it is there. If I can tell that a player has delay going on, he is using too much. This is a 'mistake' newer players often make, as far as the one's I have heard.

[Travis Toy]

It seems that there is an ongoing topic for reverbs and delays and we all love the vibe of these effects.

However, there were responses to topics way back where it was mentioned that some players were opting for less or even none of these effects. Blasphemy you say?

Slow songs where you use more sustain with a good dash of reverb & delay to enhance the vibe is great. However, upbeat songs/ jazz/swing or percussive playing I find these effects, especially delay "clouds" the tone a bit from one note to another.

Case in point is the demo with Travis Toy doing a demo for the new Eminence TT-12 speaker where I hear no reverb just the tone of the steel coming through the speaker. Nice sustain, great technique and percussive picking come through.

So, is less really more?

Len, thanks for the compliment. I try to use the appropriate amount of effects for the situation I'm in. I used very little in that video in hopes that people could more easily hear the intricacies of the speaker I'm promoting. I'm not personally a big delay guy, though I do use it on occasion. I figured out years ago when I started playing larger venues, that heavy effects use can really make your sound nearly indistinguishable once it goes through a huge PA and bounces around the ceiling of an arena. Again it depends on the situation, and I really like Brad's 2 cents on the topic. I'll also say, it's very easy to hide bad playing and technique with a lot of effects. It can be quite soul shattering for people to get in a situation where they have no reverb or delay. Less is more...unless it's less...then it's less. Maybe more is less, unless it's more. Wait...

[Lee Baucum]

I usually add just a touch of delay (one subtle repeat) with reverb when we play outdoors. I think it can make it sound more like a large room, with just a hair of reflection coming off a wall.....that isn't there. I hate hearing over-used delay pedals with extra notes pinging around, getting in the way of the music.

I use a simple one-knob EH Holy Grail Nano reverb pedal that is right next to me. That way I can back it off on up tempo songs and turn it up on slow songs.

[Richard Sinkler]

Lee... I never thought about the delay use outside. Makes a lot of sense. I have an outside gig coming up over LaborDay. I'll have to give that a try.

[Tony Prior]

Slight reverb sure, but delay should be used as a tool, not a knob...it's a great ADD used in moderation.

300 ms or so, single slap, maybe 10 or 15% in the mix which is barely audible

Actually now that I think of it, all effects are tools and should be used appropriately and not just ON...

[Greg Milton]

The reverb in my amp has a high pitched squeal

Hi Richard,

Not sure if this is your problem, but recent correspondence with Ken Fox has revealed (to me) that a Burr Brown chip for the reverb in a NV400 can cause high frequency oscillation (i.e. a squeal). Some people prefer the amp reverb and some prefer reverb pedals, but if you're in the former category you might want to look into it.

Greg

[Bob Hoffnar]

If the delay is timed right it can help thicken the sound without getting in the way as much. That's why I'm looking into delays that have a tap,tempo feature.

Any advice about analog delays with the tap feature out there ? For reference I am happy with the sound of my carbon copy.

Also I am way into the pre delay feature with reverbs. Any stomp boxes that have that as part of there logarithm ?

[Len Amaral]

Wow....all great comments and responses. Definitely going to rethink how I use these effects in a playing situation. Yesterday I practiced with no reverb just dry and it takes a bit to get used to hearing your steel DRY......😱😱😱. You hear subtle thinks that were hiding in your playing......😀😇😁

[Allen Peterson]

If you can't hear the delay, why have it?

Allen Peterson

[Tom Gorr]

I agree with Richard...I can't stand hearing delay on a steel...I am sure it gives a boost to the player using it...but....

Delay is my least favorite effect on most anything. It sounds unnatural and needlessly busy

[Richard Sinkler]

The reverb in my amp has a high pitched squeal

Hi Richard,

Not sure if this is your problem, but recent correspondence with Ken Fox has revealed (to me) that a Burr Brown chip for the reverb in a NV400 can cause high frequency oscillation (i.e. a squeal). Some people prefer the amp reverb and some prefer reverb pedals, but if you're in the former category you might want to look into it.

Greg

Yes. I have changed the reverb chip back to the original that came in the amp on Ken's recommendation. No change. I have replaced the cables going from chassis to the tank with no change. I would like to send it to Peavey, but can't afford the cost or having it down that long because of gigs. I have no backup amp.

Oh, and I do prefer amp reverb.

[MIchael Bean]

when I started playing larger venues, that heavy effects use can really make your sound nearly indistinguishable once it goes through a huge PA and bounces around the ceiling of an arena.

The point of reverb & delay is to simulate a large room, so as Travis stated, once you're in a larger room you won't need the artificial ambience.

[Daniel Policarpo]

Any advice about analog delays with the tap feature out there ? For reference I am happy with the sound of my carbon copy.

Also I am way into the pre delay feature with reverbs. Any stomp boxes that have that as part of there logarithm ?

There was this BOSS pedal I saw that might interest you, Bob, if you haven't seen it already.

http://www.bossus.com/blog/2015/07/10/n ... tal-delay/

[Nathan Golub]

Any advice about analog delays with the tap feature out there ? For reference I am happy with the sound of my carbon copy.

Bob, check out Diamond's Memory Lane Jr. I've been using one for a few years now and love it.

[George Kimery]

I read an interview with a famous guitar player once and he was asked "What is the single, most common mistake that amateurs make?" He replied "Too Much Reverb"

I had a Rv-3 that I used for several years. I used Lloyd Green's settings which had both reverb and delay. I was quite happy with it until I got a Wet Reverb. I sold the RV-3 and have never looked back.

If you listen closely, you can hear a very slight delay in the Wet Reverb. I have the Wet Reverb depth at 2'oclock and the mix between 12 o'clock and 1 o'clock. Can anybody that has a Wet Reverb, tell me if you think I am using too much or too little reverb.

Thanks

[John Billings]

I love the sound of a pedal steel. I used to use a bit of amp reverb and my echoplex. Now i just use a touch of amp reverb. No pedals.