AC powered volume pedal(?) vs. non powered
Moderator: Shoshanah Marohn
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Bill Hisle
- Posts: 73
- Joined: 30 Aug 2002 12:01 am
- Location: Shawnee, Kansas, USA
AC powered volume pedal(?) vs. non powered
Is there an advantage to using a powered volume pedal (such as an L120) rather than a non-powered one. (I'm currently using an Ernie Ball volume pedal which seems to work OK, and I guess I wasn't aware until recently that they came powered.)
Maybe this will help,
Any lessening of the signal (volume pedal or control), coming right out of a PU on any electrified instrument decreases drastically what audio engineers call "signal to noise" ratio.
For the layman, this means that as you decrease with your pedal (or control), the level, ANY noise around it could be evident in the speaker. ONLY when the volume pedal is at max is this NOT the case (assumes the pot is at full throw). Which is rarely where it is.
Now, there is another thing that most audio engineers rarely agree with; but it is sooooo widely felt and believed, that efforts have been made to allay this fear. And what is that?
It is simply that a volume pedal changes the tone of a steel by its very presence in the circuit. Most engineers (I included) scoff at this premise. Especially with the frequencies of audio.
But we are never going to win that battle.
Seriously, there is NO winning a debate when one is using the human ear as the "tester" versus proven scientific equipment using triple blind "testers".
So, an electified volume pedal can and often does counteract BOTH anamolies:
1. noise
2. "percieved" change in tone.
What hath "man" wrought?
carl
Any lessening of the signal (volume pedal or control), coming right out of a PU on any electrified instrument decreases drastically what audio engineers call "signal to noise" ratio.
For the layman, this means that as you decrease with your pedal (or control), the level, ANY noise around it could be evident in the speaker. ONLY when the volume pedal is at max is this NOT the case (assumes the pot is at full throw). Which is rarely where it is.
Now, there is another thing that most audio engineers rarely agree with; but it is sooooo widely felt and believed, that efforts have been made to allay this fear. And what is that?
It is simply that a volume pedal changes the tone of a steel by its very presence in the circuit. Most engineers (I included) scoff at this premise. Especially with the frequencies of audio.
But we are never going to win that battle.
Seriously, there is NO winning a debate when one is using the human ear as the "tester" versus proven scientific equipment using triple blind "testers".So, an electified volume pedal can and often does counteract BOTH anamolies:
1. noise
2. "percieved" change in tone.
What hath "man" wrought?
carl
Sorry Carl, I disagree.
Pot Volume pedals do change tone.
To prove it plug you guitar straight into an amp, no pedal. Play and listen. Then try it with a pedal. I hear a difference.
If you have a standard electric guitar, like a Tele, the tone is much brighter at full volume, roll the volume back a bit and it gets bassier.
This belongs in ELECTRONIC, moving it...
Pot Volume pedals do change tone.
To prove it plug you guitar straight into an amp, no pedal. Play and listen. Then try it with a pedal. I hear a difference.
If you have a standard electric guitar, like a Tele, the tone is much brighter at full volume, roll the volume back a bit and it gets bassier.
This belongs in ELECTRONIC, moving it...
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Donny Hinson
- Posts: 21192
- Joined: 16 Feb 1999 1:01 am
- Location: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
It's all personal preference, as far as I'm concerned. Some people swear by the powered (amplified) pedals, while others do just fine without them. One thing is for sure...a lot of really good sounds were played on the old pot-pedals. I suppose some of the increased preference for humbucking pickups came with the increased use of the amplified pedals. You see, a pedal that will amplify a music signal will amplify <u>all</u> signals. Any stray EMI (that's "hum", for the uninitiated) that your single-coil pickup recieves will be amplified along with your music.
When some players went with the amplified pedals, they noticed that their old single-coil pickups were very good at picking up stray hum too! So they went with the humbucking pickups. That solved their "problem". Other players, like myself, stayed with the single coils and the pot pedal because they did everything they were supposed to do, and hum was not a problem. They were simple, easy to repair, and quite reliable.
In the final analysis, it all boils down to personal preference. If either was vastly superior, it would rapidly become the the only one in use. The split between the users of old technology (pot pedals) and the new technology (amplified, or powered pedals) is still close to 50-50. But if significantly more players experience problems with the new (imported) pots, I imagine they will become less and less popular.
At least we still have a choice...and that's good thing!
I suppose some of the increased preference for humbucking pickups came with the increased use of the amplified pedals. You see, a pedal that will amplify a music signal will amplify <u>all</u> signals. Any stray EMI (that's "hum", for the uninitiated) that your single-coil pickup recieves will be amplified along with your music. When some players went with the amplified pedals, they noticed that their old single-coil pickups were very good at picking up stray hum too! So they went with the humbucking pickups. That solved their "problem". Other players, like myself, stayed with the single coils and the pot pedal because they did everything they were supposed to do, and hum was not a problem. They were simple, easy to repair, and quite reliable.
In the final analysis, it all boils down to personal preference. If either was vastly superior, it would rapidly become the the only one in use. The split between the users of old technology (pot pedals) and the new technology (amplified, or powered pedals) is still close to 50-50. But if significantly more players experience problems with the new (imported) pots, I imagine they will become less and less popular.
At least we still have a choice...and that's good thing!
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Roger Rettig
- Posts: 10548
- Joined: 4 Aug 2000 12:01 am
- Location: Naples, FL
- Contact:
Someone told me that the same 'advantage' that's gained by using a Hilton (or similar VP) can be had by plugging a standard 'pot' pedal through the 'effects' loop on the front of a lot of amps!
Is this true? Could it be that I might have saved $269.00? In truth, I've hardly used the Hilton - it's fine, but I don't hear a dramatic difference between it and my old Goodrich ones. I do enjoy the feeling of security that comes with owning three pedals! (My guitar's a LeGrande with SCs).
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Roger Rettig
Is this true? Could it be that I might have saved $269.00? In truth, I've hardly used the Hilton - it's fine, but I don't hear a dramatic difference between it and my old Goodrich ones. I do enjoy the feeling of security that comes with owning three pedals! (My guitar's a LeGrande with SCs).
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Roger Rettig
Joey,
We will agree to disagree. I could give you the reason one perceives a change of tone when doing what you did. But the better part of valor says, "we ain't gonna win that battle." It has been fought by the best for over 50 yrs. No way, it would ever change either hypothesis. Best to leave it alone.
Take care dear friend,
carl
We will agree to disagree. I could give you the reason one perceives a change of tone when doing what you did. But the better part of valor says, "we ain't gonna win that battle." It has been fought by the best for over 50 yrs. No way, it would ever change either hypothesis. Best to leave it alone.
Take care dear friend,
carl