Beginner Advice Requested! Two Steels. One C6, the other...?

[James Detloff]

Hi!
I'm a recent empty nester and have been playing guitar for over 40 years and have just starting exploring the wonderful world of lap steels. Over the course of the past couple months, I've been blessed to have acquired TWO steels...one you may have seen on these pages a few weeks ago is a longer scale 1963 Oahu Tonemaster with a P-90-style pup. It's REALLY toneful and warm! The other is a '49 Gibson BR-9 student model. It's a shorter scale which makes slants on the lower part of the neck a LOT easier. Right now I've got the Tonemaster strung up C6 (C-E-G-A-C-E)and the Gibby is in Open E, (E-B-E-G#-B-E). I'm trying this because I have instant success in referencing my fret positions using E as the root! I'm looking into picking up some instructional books/DVDs/lessons...but would like to know what really is a GOOD tuning to compliment the C6? I'd like to be able to play some blues and just have fun with the Gibson. I'd like to get into some Western swing style and some nice standards with the C6...so I'll probably pick up Doug's two volumes of 25 songs for the C6. But...What about the Gibby? Is the tuning I'm using versatile? Should I maybe go more "Dobro-Like" (E-G#-B-E-G#-B)? I've heard that open "G" or "A" is pretty popular? Please lay some experienced guidance on me friends! Thanks!

Peace...
Jim

[Thomas Temple]

James,

First off welcome to the forum as well as the "brotherhood of steel". You sure are starting out with some fine instruments and I'm sure that you will find that there are many many tunings to experiment with but I do think C6th and going with Doug's books will be very beneficial. As for the second tuning here is a link to a previous discussion and variations on E tuning. That seems to be the one of the most used for a second tuning. You may have already seen this but hope that it helps.

Tom
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=227355

[James Detloff]

Thanks a lot Tom!

James,

First off welcome to the forum as well as the "brotherhood of steel". You sure are starting out with some fine instruments and I'm sure that you will find that there are many many tunings to experiment with but I do think C6th and going with Doug's books will be very beneficial. As for the second tuning here is a link to a previous discussion and variations on E tuning. That seems to be the one of the most used for a second tuning. You may have already seen this but hope that it helps.

Tom
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=227355

[Ray Montee]

This question arises about every 90 days here on the SGF and while legitimate.......

I'd personally recommend that you concentrate on the C6th/A7th until you know it inside and out and can play any style or tune on it that you might desire. The tuning really doesn't have as much to do with what kind of song you choose to play as does the picking/bar movements.

I'm still learning the ins & outs after more than sixty years.

[James Detloff]

So Ray...
I get the C6 (C-E-G-A-C-E) and there seems to be LOTS of instructional stuff out there...but what's the C6/A7th tuning? And...is there specific instruction readily available for it? Thanks my friend!

---Jim

This question arises about every 90 days here on the SGF and while legitimate.......

I'd personally recommend that you concentrate on the C6th/A7th until you know it inside and out and can play any style or tune on it that you might desire. The tuning really doesn't have as much to do with what kind of song you choose to play as does the picking/bar movements.

I'm still learning the ins & outs after more than sixty years.

[Ray Montee]

James.....Try E C A G E C#

It's a fabulous melody tuning and there is no end to all the excitement it can bring to you.

If you're truly a dedicated student of this guitar and tuning, I couldn't suggest with more emphasis that you acquire the JERRY BYRD Instructional Manual available from Scotty's in St.Louis. Rather than chasing around and purchasing dozens of small books, from lesser known authors, I think you'll find all the answers to any questions that might arise.

To hear what this tuning can provide, I'd also urge you to visit the jerrybyrd-fanclub.com/ site and to Jerry's Music page. HEARING is beleiving!

[Steven Pearce]

Ray, I think your advice on two different tunings is right on. After three years back on lap steel,tuned to D, I think about adding another tuned to C6 /or??
There is so much I'm still discovering I figure I will wait for another few years to add a new key
Steve Pearce

http://www.fentonstwang.com/fr_home.cfm

[Dan Simard]

From a beginner to another, I followed everyone's advice and play C6/A7. The A7 is because when you play the 4 last strings (A C E C#), you have a A7 chord.

I personally have an 8 string which is a little bit different : G E C A G E C C#.

[Steve Ahola]

James: The 1949 BR-9 is a real screamer, with the wide oval pickup also on the pre-50's Century 6 and Ultratone.

So in your 40 years playing regular guitar have you ever used an open E bottleneck tuning? Not that it really matters... I see no problem with a two-pronged approach to lap steel, with C6 on one steel for more serious and melodic endeavors, and some variation of E on the other for fun.

I had always thought that David Lindley must have been playing a fancier tuning but he has usually used open E (along with the same intervals of open E moved up or down a few frets.) While you get all of the power octaves and fifths in open E you don't get the closer voicings of C6 which allow for richer harmonies.

The six string E tuning I've ended up using is E9th which is a variation of the simpler E7th tuning and offers a lot of harmonic complexities. Mike Neer has put together several tutorials for the 8 string version of E9th, which is just like the 6 string version I spelled out but with a low E and G# on the bottom.

[tab]E E7 E9
E E E .015
B B B .018
G# G# G# .024w
E E F# .028
B D D .036
E B B .038 [/tab]

I will switch back to E7th for a more solid rock or blues sound. You may have noticed that E7th has the same 4 notes on top as open E which make for an easy transition from one to the other.

Steve Ahola

P.S. I'd suggest that you start out with the plain C6th on your Tonemaster to get the sound and feel of that before making the move to the Jerry Byrd C6/A7 tuning. (It is easy enough tuning the 6th string up to C# when you are ready for it.)

P.P.S. For a 3-pronged approach you can also retune C6 to A6 which many people prefer to C6:

[tab]C6 A6
E E
C C#
A A
G F#
E E
C C#[/tab]

(I think that my evil twin is schizophrenic! )

EDIT: There is an alternate 8 string path for the six string E7/E9th chords: the E13th tuning with the G# on top which everybody associates with Don Helms (he tuned the 7th and 8th strings to C# and A):

[tab]
E7 E9 E13
G#
E E E
C#
B B B
G# G# G#
E F# E/F#
D D D
B B B [/tab]

I switch back and forth between E and F# for the 6th string (once you get hooked on the 9th there it is hard to say no.) This tuning is very close to E9th pedal steel, especially when you factor in the pedals. Not that it sounds particularly "pedal steely" but most of the basic notes are in there.

[James Detloff]

THAT WAS AN AWESOME POST STEVE! Thanks so much! I'm going to pick up Doug's two song books for standard C6. Then...I'm going to play around with the E tuning variations that you shared. I can't believe I haven't discovered the lap steel thing until now. That BR-9 IS a little screamer! I have neen running it as well as the Tonemaster through my 5f1 Champ circuit tweed amp set up with new-old glass and a 12" mojotone greenback clone. Ahhhhh...there's nothing like the smell of hot tubes and sweet steel tones!

[Steve Ahola]

That BR-9 IS a little screamer! I have neen running it as well as the Tonemaster through my 5f1 Champ circuit tweed amp set up with new-old glass and a 12" mojotone greenback clone. Ahhhhh...there's nothing like the smell of hot tubes and sweet steel tones!

Here is a video of Doug Beaumier playing "Ghost Riders In The Sky" on his 1950 Gibson Century 6 which I believe has the same pickup as your BR-9:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cK5aT07gOis

Steve Ahola