Escrow?

[Niels Andrews]

What do most private parties do in guitar transactions? I am currently using a escrow service I have used before, but was quick to realize it is not well know in these circles. I bought a Les Paul on faith that turned out not to be a Gibson as advertised but an Epiphone, big difference.
So what are you other guys doing?

[Ken Metcalf]

Buyer beware... I like to play them before I buy them.
Even then..

[john widgren]

I buy and sell on the forum occasionally.

Look at the suggested terms at the top of the buy/sell section...very good info!

When I sell an item, I provide detailed condition information. I provide a return period if the buyer does not agree that it is exactly what I say it is. This provides an incentive for me to be detailed, scrupulous, and as honest as I can be in my descriptions. I take good "in focus" photos. (I also use spell check).. I do not provide returns for "I just don't like it" scenarios.

If you don't agree an item I sell is what I say it is, in the condition I describe (in writing) then you pay the return, and you get your money back. No problems. I always prefer to use paypal to protect both buyer and seller. If someone suggests lying to paypal to skirt the fees, that is a red flag for me, and I wont deal with them.

Shipping damage and insurance issues are always the responsibility of the seller.

These are the terms I provide on everything I sell.

If I am a buyer, I insist on the same. It's simple.

I have had a few forumites (sellers) object to these conditions, suggesting that clearly stated terms are somehow an affront to their integrity...I say that's BS, and and wont deal with them. If someone trys to be obtuse or evasive when asked specific condition questions, and says something like "well I dont know... it' been good enough" That does not fly.

Most forumites are very "stand up and honest" people...a few are not. I've learned how to avoid them.

Best wishes,

JW

[Herb Steiner]

Unfortunately, when the instrument is in a far and distant land, trying it out before purchase is usually impossible. In this scenario, good communication between buyer and seller is essential.

IMO,this communication should include:
1. photos of every part of the instrument;
2. any known defects, mechanical or cosmetic not readily obvious by the photos;
3. an approval period with a right of return, shipping paid both ways by the buyer;
4. and, if necessary, an escrow service if the seller is unknown to the buyer or has a less than stellar reputation.

Generally this Forum makes people honest because regular participants don't want to risk the ridicule involved with a misrepresented or larcenous deal. Several phone calls are usually all it takes for me to decide whether or not I can trust someone to do as they say they'll do.

That said, the only time I felt totally screwed on a deal was with a Forumite who misrepresented the instrument I got in a trade deal. My bad, I trusted him and didn't ask for photos. Not only was the guitar not what he claimed it was, he wouldn't honor the approval period he demanded of me, and then whined privately to b0b that I was gonna flame him on the Forum. Well, he hasn't shown his face here since that time, which was years ago.

John W.'s post came online whilst I was typing. I agree with his methods 100%. Of course, we have so many mutual friends that I'd take his word for anything. He wears a white hat.

[John Kolodij]

I used Escrow.com once and it was great-the buyer paid the Escrow.com fees.
very easy to understand and use

[Martin Vigesaa]

I always prefer to use paypal to protect both buyer and seller

Is there anything specific you have to setup to protect the buyer/seller when using paypal? How does it work?

I have a Paypal account and hope to buy a black Emmons original or Promat soon, but I fear sending payment and the guitar never showing up.

[Dean Parks]

I used Escrow.com once, I think it worked well. Every step is listed and mutually agreed to by both parties... take a look at the form. Each point is negotiated and agreed to, and by the end you have your customized deal. They hold your money until items are satisfied or timed out. So either your money is paid out to the seller, or is refunded.

Experienced payers/sellers... is there anything I'm missing re this method.? I'd like to hear what you think of it. As I say, it worked once for me, it was out of country, and many steps shipping/customs-wise. it was cool to have the money and approval period part figured out already.

[Carl Mesrobian]

I always prefer to use paypal to protect both buyer and seller

Is there anything specific you have to setup to protect the buyer/seller when using paypal? How does it work?

I have a Paypal account and hope to buy a black Emmons original or Promat soon, but I fear sending payment and the guitar never showing up.

As a Paypal member you are probably aware that Paypal has everything explained - you just have to look for the links - sometimes tiny ones

[Russ Tkac]

I've bought and sold on the forum quite a bit and have not had a problem. I've received checks and done business through Paypal. I guess I've been fortunate.

I pack what I ship and they have all arrived without a problem. I just shipped an amp to Florida and it got there in fine shape. If possible I recommend leaving the handle exposed. It gives the shipper the orientation of up and down and I think it just shows that you're trying to make it easier for the one moving the box. I think that they may take extra care moving it because I tried to make moving it easier for them.

I just bought a 35 year old Great Lakes Banjo that my friend Mark built in Ann Arbor in 1977. It was in France. This was my first over seas purchase. I had good communication from the seller. I did a bit of internet searching on the seller's name and found he builds custom acoustic guitars. I paid him with Paypal and he researched the shipping and found that the French post office (colissimo.fr) to be the best and most cost effective way to ship. He told me that it would take 9 days to arrive. On the 9th day at 10 Am the US post office pulled into my drive!

The best advise I've found is good communication. If you don't have that I'd pass on the deal.

[Darrell Weaver]

Use PayPal and use your credit card as the method of payment and you can deal directly with your credit card company if you have any problems. They will charge back the payment and you do not lose anything.

[Mike Cass]

If you have to use an escrow service in fear of the other party not adhering to common decency and honesty in a deal, imho, the instrument isnt worth having or selling. These days you never know if you're dealing with a crook, if the instrument may be misrepresented in some fashion, or hotter than a firecracker. I trust my intuition along these lines. If the deal sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
When I buy or sell, unless previously agreed on by myself and the other party, it is with an unconditional a 24 approval period as steel guitars are such a personal instrument.
Occasionally a buyer will attempt to tune a recently recieved guitar in a manner that its not adjusted for, or the shipping carrier will toss one around a bit and knock it out of whack and some phone help may be in order, which I will give them, as my clients will attest to. Ive spent many an evening helping them to sort out such problems, so Ive found it best to give and ask for some flexibility, hence the period of approval, if nothing else out of common sense.

The problem with credit cards(more for the seller here)is that a buyer can decide after say 20 days that he doesnt want the guitar, or as has happened to some I know, the buyer was actually trying to resell it @ a profit and his deal fell through. He then got Visa to issue a charge back on the item, leaving the seller in the lurch. Additionally, you can get the card company to issue you a charge back and actually keep the instrument so thats why I accept no credit/debit cards whatsoever.

Its tough enough to do business these days, why complicate things? Buy/sell it on approval, or move on to the next deal.

MC

[Ray Anderson]

All the years that I have used credit cards; I didn't know this aspect of the card. Could you explain in detail how that would work? I by no means would do something like this but I didn't know it could happen to me on a sell, either.

[Richard Sinkler]

The problem with credit cards and even Paypal is, you can contact them saying the merchandise was not what you thought you were buying or misrepresented and they will put the transaction in dispute. They may even charge back the seller until things are resolved.