Playing with a singer-songwriter - not sounding so 'country'

[Joseph Carlson]

It seems like there are more and more opportunities to play on projects where they want steel but they don't want it to sound "country". In my case, it seems like everything I play on steel comes out sounding country.

Any tips, hints or ideas for de-countryfying your playing in these type of situations?

[Bob Blair]

I've done quite a lot of those kind of gigs and I like them. What I suggest is to simplify your approach a bit - there is no need to fill up all the spaces with "licks". In fact, those spaces in the music are an important part of the sound. Think of yourself as sometimes taking on the role of a string section. Rely a bit more on bar movement and less on pedals for single-note phrases. Don't always play full chords - again, you need to leave space in the music. Drop in some simple harmonics as a counterpoint to the acoustic guitar. Less is more pretty much sums up the approach.

[Jack Stoner]

I just did a "remote session" for a studio in New Zealand. The song was Dylan's "You Ain't Goin' Nowhere".

They sent me the song (MP3) and I imported it into Sonar, did the steel track and sent them the steel track.

They liked the steel track and the guy was thrilled that he had a "real" steel for the track, rather than the MIDI he was trying to use.

[Jim Cohen]

Joe, I find often they are looking for "atmospheric" steel guitar, with a little more reverb than I would normally use. Also, I would avoid the cliche'd use of the A pedal while holding down the B pedal. In fact you might go sparingly altogether on engaging any pedals AFTER you've already picked the string (or maybe even moreso after picking a chord), but they might like long slides... I generally concur with Bob's advice above too, but you'll have to get a feel from each producer or artist to know for sure what they're looking for, of course.

[Mike Neer]

Use long delays, too, in conjunction with your volume pedal. An occasional modulation effect is nice. Listen to some Greg Leisz--he is a master.

[Joseph Carlson]

Thanks for all the great tips everyone.

Are there any really great examples of this approach out there that I can track down?

[Mike Neer]

Here is one of my favorite examples:

Greg Leisz with Peter Case. This is one of the reasons I play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzAdqnmPNbk

Another of my favorites is Richard Buckner's "Since" CD with Eric Heywood on steel. You might also want to check out Ray LaMontagne.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6a_1R3w5i4

[chas smith]

A little further out and this is not singer-songwriter, but an example of what a long delay and long tones can do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pavBmNdV ... re=related

[Nathan Golub]

I really like Greg Leisz's playing on Jakob Dylan's Women & Country album.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGzmUckn ... re=related

[Twayn Williams]

Let me add my +1 for Greg Leiz

If you don't have "Good Dog, Happy Man" by Bill Frisell, go out and get it now!

Here's a masterclass in playing a C major scale:
Poem for Eva

[Bryan Daste]

Avoid any cliched licks and play more texturally. Definitely avoid sliding into any chords from a half-step below!

[Greg Simmons]

Yeah, Greg Leisz for sure check out his voluminous credits on All-Music for some required listening if you're going for that vibe:) plus some good live stuff on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On9NDjZ5TTg

Also (as also mentioned earlier) Eric Heywood: here's a nice exmaple of Eric backing Jeffrey Foucault http://youtu.be/AulV3kKSFlI

[Daniel Morris]

Wouldn't put myself in Greg's league, but here's one approach I use in my prog/art rock original band, INTRA:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xj90-TeoEiA
It certainly depends on the type of music you're called upon to play. As Chas and others have made mention, you have to be extremely conscious of your A pedal (standard E9, raising B strings). Perhaps more than anything else, that bend will blow your cover.
I use effects pedals, E-Bow, hitting the strings with a metal rod.

[Tony Prior]

Nice thread, very relevant topic...I also concur with Jim and Bob as stated above. The thing about playing non country we really need to understand what that means, which to me implies not a lot of note bending...lay back, simple pads , glisses, open feeling. More often than not clients or other artist don't actually know what "less country " means so you can define it..but not with traditional phrases.

I did half a dozen E sessions this past month and one in studio session, they all wanted less country but Steel "atmosphere"..

Clearly stay out of the way of the vocals or other primary Instruments, lay back, try to develop a simple theme and go for it..

Less Country to me , is less A , B or AB Ped bends...which is typical traditional Country.

easier said then done I suppose !

[Paul Sutherland]

Think like a horn section, or a string section, or an organ player.

[Scott Henderson]

IF the song has a musical "hook" that's a good place to start.....
If all else fails. ..the "kids seem to love chimes and pete drake swells....
I agree with staying away from the cliche' steel licks......
go with the feel of the song...

[Dave Hopping]

This could be called "stealth country" or else "country music for people who can't admit to themselves how much they like country music".Although the Dylan and JF material could have used a little more steel(and just a little more AB pedal),it's still pretty nice.

[Fred Rushing]

Help me out here fellas. When you say stay off the A pedal and AB blend changes you must be talking of the rocking on and off of these pedals. Every example supplied here that I listen to they are using the A and B pedal all day long or am I not hearing it as it sounds. I am just asking a question and not trying to be confrontational. I love all the stuff I have listened to but it seems to me it is just HOW you use the pedal. IMO the E9 tuning is limitless and is great for any music situation.
Fred

[Jeff Spencer]

I played in a live orchestra musical and was replicating the harp part and giving chordal washes "under" the music if that makes sense? Definately check out Eric Haywood playing for Ray LaMontagne as Mike said above. Sure you use the pedals but for getting the chords (not using the bends for "licks" ( I tended to use it more as a lap steel) Sometimes I just stay out of the way if I feel the music is cluttered. I think of BB King and how his single notes can give so much to the music, as apposed to the heavy metal shredders who seem see how many notes they can cramb into a passage.
All of the above is good advise - Less is more

[David Mason]

Well at the risk of tedious over-quoting, here's what Daniel Lanois had to say about his use of the "anti-steel steel":

There are two aspects of the pedal steel that keep me really interested in it—melody and the fact that I get better results the less busy I play. Those things pushed me in a certain direction that’s very unlike the high-speed Western swing pedal steel players. I love that sound, but I don’t do it at all. I chose to slow the thing down and really let it breathe—which makes it a whole new instrument, sonically and compositionally. Sometimes I think about steel guitar like a string quartet—at any given time you can have four notes interplaying. It’s still mystifying to me. But you can’t put it down for too long, or you’ll lose your technique and the ear for it. And every note really demands attention on a pedal steel.

Play slow... pay attention... generally speaking, if someone is looking for hotshot burnin' solos, they'll ask a guitar player anyway, because they don't listen to Buddy and Ralph and Doug and Paul. You may know who those people are, and hold them up as some steel ideal, but in the real world? Uh-uh.

P.S (Mike Neer - you missed an "h" on the referral to Ray LaMontagne's cut. It's good playing.)

[Mike Neer]

David, thanks, I fixed the link.

[Jeff Spencer]

Great post David. Well said!

[Marc Jenkins]

Great thread. Agreed about Eric Heywood and Greg Leisz. I also look to Ben Keith' playing with Neil Young, especially on Tonight's the Night and Harvest, for inspiration. Tasty tone, memorable parts, simplicity and such feel!

[Tony Prior]

Help me out here fellas. When you say stay off the A pedal and AB blend changes you must be talking of the rocking on and off of these pedals.
Fred

Yes, which is the traditional Pedal Steel Guitar phrasing, we love it while others may hate it, Non Country folks refer to this a "Whiney"...this is the sound that defines Country rather than being middle of the road.

We hear this and identify, others hear it and it's like finger nails on a chalk bd.

Add some traditional "slide" phrases rather than AB moan phrases along with pads...play less..of they want more they'll tell you...

[Daniel Morris]

Yes, you're quite right there, Fred.
It is very much how you use the A/B pedals.
In my example, like others, I use the A/B pedals and typical E9 steel positions. However, you want to play more single string lines. As I say, it also depends on the music being performed; there are times when you can use a standard bend, but perhaps avoid using a full 3 string grip. Think synth or horn lines. Think Sacred Steel stylings.Use octaves, like 4 + 8 or 5 + 10 strings. It seems that much of the music that uses steel in non/less country ways is slow to medium tempos, so you have more room to explore. In some threads here, you'll see some pickers don't care for using steel for "atmospherics". In country music, I'd generally agree, but even there, creating a complimentary atmosphere is what you're after. In one of my bands, the leader told me he knew I could do country stuff, but that on much of what he'd heard me do, one might have thought there was perhaps another (standard) guitarist playing, were one blindfolded. On faster, rockier, heavier songs, I use heavy fuzz. Even with bar slides and A pedal bends, I think more like slide or lap steel and try to emulate such rock stuff as I've heard over the years using either of those.
Does this help any? I'm sure those of us who play music other than country will be happy to continue giving suggestions. (Or e-mail/PM me with a phone number, if you'd like).