Pedal Steel Sound From a Lap Steel?

Dennis Burling · Post by **Dennis Burling** » 15 Apr 2010 5:17 am

A good friend told me he had heard what he thought was a pedal steel guitar in a band while on vacation. Ron has a good ear for this stuff. He's been playing guitar in bands for forty years. Anyway, he said he was knocked out when he realized the guy was playing a straight console steel. I wish he would have paid attention to what steel guitar and other equipment he was using.

So this has me thinking, what lap steel guitar would sound most like a pedal steel? What other equipment would aid in giving a pedal steel sound?

thanks

Jack Ritter · Post by **Jack Ritter** » 15 Apr 2010 6:24 am

I could get that sound years ago using an E tuning by pulling a string behind the bar with my 3rd finger after picking a 2 string note, if I remember right. Hadn't done this in years. I was playing a 6 string Rick and a double 8 Epiphone.

D Schubert · Post by **D Schubert** » 15 Apr 2010 7:43 am

There are a lot of PSG-sounding licks on a console steel, that incorporate bar slants, behind-the-bar bends, hammer-ons and pull-offs. That has very little to do with the gear, and everything to do with the player.

Roy Thomson · Post by **Roy Thomson** » 15 Apr 2010 8:42 am

You can get a pedal "feel" and sound
...not all....on a six string Lap Steel
tuned standard C6th E-C--A--G--E--C High to Low.
Slanting is necessary altho I do not do the
Isaacs E to A change in the
following noted clip ... it can be simulated.

Listen at:

http://www.mediafire.com/?w0zkxz0m51z

Email me for Courses and instruction information.
Check out my ClicTab Web Site

Roy

Earl Grubbs · Post by **Earl Grubbs** » 15 Apr 2010 10:53 am

Hey Denny, here is an excellent example of the non-pedal sounding like a psg by incorporating bar slants, behind the bar pulls and volume pedal swells.

http://www.youtube.com/user/rickalexand ... tzRg2kjiSk

Dennis Burling · Post by **Dennis Burling** » 15 Apr 2010 12:58 pm

Earl Grubbs wrote:Hey Denny, here is an excellent example of the non-pedal sounding like a psg by incorporating bar slants, behind the bar pulls and volume pedal swells.

http://www.youtube.com/user/rickalexand ... tzRg2kjiSk

Hey Earl, it's good to hear from you. How has things been going? Are you playing in a band?

Thanks for the link. Amazing what talent can do. I could listen to Billy Robinson all day That's something that's in short supply around here.

Denny

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 15 Apr 2010 1:48 pm

I did this on non pedal steel.

http://www.mediafire.com/?59jtbwwdmj4

Dennis Burling · Post by **Dennis Burling** » 15 Apr 2010 1:58 pm

Bill Hatcher wrote:I did this on non pedal steel.

http://www.mediafire.com/?59jtbwwdmj4

Bill, that's beautiful. What lap steel are you playing?

Thanks

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 15 Apr 2010 2:10 pm

That sounds great, Bill. Beautiful sound and feel.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 15 Apr 2010 7:35 pm

Dennis Burling wrote:
Bill Hatcher wrote:I did this on non pedal steel.

http://www.mediafire.com/?59jtbwwdmj4
Bill, that's beautiful. What lap steel are you playing?

Thanks

I think that is a Wilcox 10 string lap guitar tuned to extended Leavitt.

The key to getting the pedal steel sound is the sustain and the pickup. Whatever the guitar you have to have good sustain to get the moving things to hang on a little longer till you finish the phrase.

The pickup on this guitar is a George L E66. I has the sound a lot of pedal guitars use.

The Leavitt tuning lets you do more without slants. In this entire song there maybe only one slant and a couple of behind the bar pulls. I am glad you like it.

Martin Huch · Post by **Martin Huch** » 15 Apr 2010 11:58 pm

http://www.goeldo.de/gshop.php?p=bender&lang=en

scroll down and click on "videos"

bend it !!

Martin

Earl Grubbs · Post by **Earl Grubbs** » 16 Apr 2010 4:22 am

Hey Denny, I'm not with a band right now. Just having fun getting into non-pedal steel.

Dennis Burling · Post by **Dennis Burling** » 16 Apr 2010 4:24 am

"The key to getting the pedal steel sound is the sustain and the pickup. Whatever the guitar you have to have good sustain to get the moving things to hang on a little longer till you finish the phrase."

So a longer scale lap steel would be better for pedal steel sound than say a 22.5" scale?

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 16 Apr 2010 9:27 am

yes IMO

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 16 Apr 2010 10:10 am

this technique will one day become as disgusting to some steel players, as trying to play all evening with a lead guitar player that has a BUD ISSACS obsession or fantacy?

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 16 Apr 2010 4:04 pm

Ray Montee wrote:this technique will one day become as disgusting to some steel players, as trying to play all evening with a lead guitar player that has a BUD ISSACS obsession or fantacy?

the technique of getting pedal sounding licks on the non pedal guitar?....

it would only be disgusting to the steel players who are self inflicted, non adventurous, moldy, set in their ways, have a day job and don't need to really learn new things, only want to hear C6,etc etc etc....which SOME steel players are like that...so the answer is yes.

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 17 Apr 2010 4:25 am

I get a pedal effect with my six stringer(s) tuned to G6th B D E G B D (low to high) pulling the second string behind the bar. Play strings 2 4 3 2 and then pull the 2nd string up a half, it's a real nice effect and brings you into a IV chord......JH in Va.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 17 Apr 2010 5:00 pm

There's one way of getting pedal steel sounds with a lap steel that no-one ever mentions. If you think about it, you're trying to sound a string that is changing pitch while other strings in the chord remain unchanged. The answer is two lap steels, and two players.

(That's not to mention fitting palm levers, which is another subject.)

Al Terhune · Post by **Al Terhune** » 18 Apr 2010 5:10 am

Dennis Burling wrote:I could listen to Billy Robinson all day(.)

Hear-hear. Plug in Billy's name in Youtube and watch him in action. Billy is nothing short of a genius.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 18 Apr 2010 6:52 am

I am confused by how the thread is going. I was under the impression that Denny was curious about the idea of a lap or non-pedal steel sounding like a pedal steel, not which techniques can used to emulate a pedal steel.

So yeah, that would have to do with pickup, amp, etc. A number of people think that for example, the MSA Superslide and Remington non-pedals have a decidedly pedal steel-like sound, which would have a lot to do with the pickup.

And some players don't want a non-pedal steel guitar to sound like a steel. I remember from one of our Nor Cal steel jams several years back that there were a couple Rickenbacher Bakelite lap steels, and a few of the guys remarked that in terms of tone or sound, in an A/B comparison to the many pedal guitars in the room, they were the best sounding guitars at the jam that day.

You don't get that fat rich sound from just about any pedal steel, it's kind of a different breed of cat.

And Bill, thanks for that version of "Way to Survive." Could have fooled me, between the George L E66 pickup and the extended Leavitt tuning. Just beautiful!

So one big factor that we can deduce is that the tuning has an awful lot to do with it, to be able to play a lot of complex chords which is often the hallmark of of the pedal steel.

Tom Pettingill · Post by **Tom Pettingill** » 18 Apr 2010 7:04 am

Alan Brookes wrote:... (That's not to mention fitting palm levers, which is another subject.)...

It might be another subject, but its certainly relevant to the discussion and a real and viable option.
I'm starting a build that will be using the Duesenberg multibender and I'm looking forward to checking it out. Unfortunately I'm not much of a player, so much will be lost on me. With luck it will be recorded and in the artists upcoming video.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 18 Apr 2010 10:03 am

Tom Pettingill wrote:...It might be another subject, but its certainly relevant to the discussion and a real and viable option.
I'm starting a build that will be using the Duesenberg multibender and I'm looking forward to checking it out.

Well if it is considered relevant, here's an SX lap steel that I fitted Duesenberg palm levers to.

Tom Pettingill · Post by **Tom Pettingill** » 18 Apr 2010 10:49 am

Dennis Burling wrote:... What other equipment would aid in giving a pedal steel sound? ...

Alan Brookes wrote:... Well if it is considered relevant, here's an SX lap steel that I fitted Duesenberg palm levers to....

Sure, while its most likely not what was on the steel Denny's friend heard, its certainly an equipment option, either as a retro fit like yours or an option on new steel too.

Dennis Burling · Post by **Dennis Burling** » 18 Apr 2010 11:55 am

Tom Pettingill wrote:
Dennis Burling wrote:... What other equipment would aid in giving a pedal steel sound? ...

Alan Brookes wrote:... Well if it is considered relevant, here's an SX lap steel that I fitted Duesenberg palm levers to....
Sure, while its most likely not what was on the steel Denny's friend heard, its certainly an equipment option, either as a retro fit like yours or an option on new steel too.

Tom,I look at that photo and wonder how hard that contraption would be to master. My biggest battle with the Lap Steel is blocking. Sure, it get's better and better as time goes on, but I'm still not there yet. How do you do right hand palm block/mute and still use the levers?

I'm looking forward to your review when you finish the project. I'd love to see photos also.

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