I found the solution to loud Telecaster guitars.

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 20 Aug 2008 2:33 pm

For years and years I have been over powered by Fender Telecaster and Gibson Les Paul guitars. These guitars cut through and I seemed lost in the band volume and guitar volume. The only way I could solve the problem was point my amp directly at my head, or increase the volume of the steel until people complained. The last two shows I played, I tried something different. On my Peavey amp I turned down the bass, turned the trebble up, and kept turning up the presence until it was wide open. That did the trick. I was able to cut through the two Fender Telecasters, with my amp at a reasonable volume. I liked the sound I was getting, and got a bunch of complements about my sound. If you try this, you must overcome your fear of trebble--in other words don't be afraid to set your amp like Ralph Mooney. Playing with a lot of trebble and presence is not for the weak of heart. You must also be a proficent player, because all of your good licks, and all of your mistakes will be heard. I have been tortured by Telecasters and Les Paul guitars all my life. Now, I know how to deal with them.

Twayn Williams · Post by **Twayn Williams** » 20 Aug 2008 2:39 pm

Odd, I seem to torture the guitars players when I'm on steel

You're right, I use a very, very bright sound, like a laser beam, and I always cut through. 12k TrueTone through a Princeton Recording Amp/DRRI/TRRI depending of drummer volume. I've never had to go to the Twin yet to get enough volume, the DRRI has sufficient umph on tap. I also don't fear amp breakup, in fact, I often court it.

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 20 Aug 2008 6:08 pm

Keith you could always put a chord chart in front of the guitar players --- that usually shuts them up

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 20 Aug 2008 6:11 pm

Keith, another solution is to catch the guitar player not looking, pull his input jack out of the amp, slobber on your finger and wipe it around on the jack, plug it back in and you are set for the night. He will be bassed down and have a loss of power. Here I go advising an electronics genius on electronics.

Jerry

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 20 Aug 2008 6:34 pm

It's not the Telecaster that does the damage - it's the player (I feel like I'm doing an NRA spot).

Although I agree that having enough treble end is important, treble-abuse is rampant among lots of guitar players. I have a couple of other suggestions:

1. Play both electric guitar and steel, and just don't have any other electric guitars in the band.

2. If you do have another guitar player and they're blowing you away, tell him or her to turn down the treble to a reasonable level. A Telecaster into a Twin Reverb or some other loud-and-clean amp with the treble cranked is a lethal weapon in the wrong hands.

3. Find a drummer who can play at a reasonable level. That's the main reason most guitar players crank it up. Cut the drummer back, a loud guitarist will stick out like a sore thumb. In a small club, if the guitarist needs more than something like a Deluxe Reverb or Peavey Bandit 65, the drummer's probably too loud.

[Yes, that's a 15" Peavey Black Widow in the little blue speaker cab in back of me. It was powered by a 300-watt GK bass head - Tubefex front-end for steel, Pod front-end for Tele. That was just my monitor, and I didn't have it cranked at all. I just wanted it to be clean, and it was.]

In all seriousness - there are plenty of guitar players who "play nicely" with steel. I saw a bunch playing clubs in Nashville and Boston (lap steel). It was downright inspiring.

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 20 Aug 2008 10:22 pm

In most of the bands I play with, we get a nice stage blend, based on mutual respect and a "band groove". When I get into a situation where the guitar is overpowering, I usually lay back and wait for the complaints about not hearing the steel.
If that doesn't do it, they don't need me in that lineup anyway.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 21 Aug 2008 1:40 am

I'll go on record..

It's not the Telecaster...or the Les Paul

one thought...

If the guitar players amps are on the floor, and there is no LIVE monitor mix ,it's easy for the guitar players, while standing, to NOT hear themselves very well. No different than mentioned above where the Steel amp had to be pointed at the Steel player so he could hear.

I recommend that the you all use stands for your amps . Those neat little tripod amp stands are portable and allow for the amps to be tilted back so that the sound projects at an angle UP rather than strait out.

There are several varieties of amps stands out there,if used properly can really assist in these situations.

I can add this from my own experiences on Telecasters, if I cannot hear my guitar sustain while soloing, just like SUSTAIN on Steel, what I play will not be what I want to play. Make sense ?I use an amp stand and when I solo I back into the area of the speaker dispersion, I can hear just fine and I don't raise the volume to do it. Telecasters are basically very weak single coil guitars and many players over use treble to compensate which is a mistake.

hope it all gets worked out..

tp

by the way TP also means Telecaster Player

PS..

Any band with TWO electric guitars and a Steel player can be a very tuff road to hoe. Being a guitar player I am very aware of OTHER Guitar players who are too loud or..uh..never stop playing. Generally I don't play in bands with these scenario's anymore, if I do, I do the reverse, I play softer to the point where someone says they can't hear me.

uhh..point now made....

ok, I have more but I'll wait until the loud or overplaying KEYBOARD player thread arrives

Bo Borland · Post by **Bo Borland** » 21 Aug 2008 3:31 am

I'm currently playing in a 2 guitar and keyboard band and it sounds very good because of respect and taste. Lots of musical space and dynamics make it all work.
The extra treble thing Keith mentioned is important and also how the amps are positioned.
Last night the 2nd guitar player switched to bass and asked that I turn my amp away from him a little ("it was all he could hear" and he wears ear plugs)
I think I will treble/presence up a little tonite. We are playing a municipal date in a multi purpose concrete block building that is very boomy and has an echo.

Rick Nicklas · Post by **Rick Nicklas** » 21 Aug 2008 3:50 am

Keith, "The bass-player is your friend".

I have always tried to put him/her between me and the band. Then if you are lucky enough to have your own monitor, you can reach over and adjust it too your own liking for a balance to your ears.

Tamara James · Post by **Tamara James** » 21 Aug 2008 4:41 am

Paddy Long wrote:Keith you could always put a chord chart in front of the guitar players --- that usually shuts them up

AMEN. The truth shall set you free.

Dick Wood · Post by **Dick Wood** » 21 Aug 2008 5:30 am

I hear ya Keith. I just recently started playing guitar in our band as self defense.

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 21 Aug 2008 6:24 am

I play on Tuesdays and Thursdays with a classic county band in which there's another guitar player who plays an old Gibson SG. He's a very good player and does some great stuff. However, he only uses the bridge pickup and his volume and tone controls are full on. He sets the overall volume on the amp and gets a nice tone but his backup volume behind the singer and behind my steel is almost the same as when he's doing a lead. I can't seem to play with any dynamics as if I cut it back just a little or try to let a note or chord decay it gets lost in his volume. What do you say to someone who's 74 years old and has been playing like that his whole life? Lately I've been leaving the steel at home and just playing twin leads with him and it seems to work better that way.

I used the same guy a few times in my own band and it was the same scenario so lately we've been doing gigs with myself on lead and steel and a bass player & drummer along with my wife on vocals. I miss having an extra instrument to share leads with but I don't miss the constant volume thing......JH in Va.

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 21 Aug 2008 7:05 am

[Yes, that's a 15" Peavey Black Widow in the little blue speaker cab in back of me. It was powered by a 300-watt GK bass head - Tubefex front-end for steel, Pod front-end for Tele. That was just my monitor, and I didn't have it cranked at all. I just wanted it to be clean, and it was.]

I have been wondering how those heads would do for steel as they are lightweight and cheap. I even made a thread in another section asking if anyone had tried em for steel. Nice to see someone has a least tried it.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 21 Aug 2008 9:09 am

Anybody got any non-intrusive ways to disable other bandmembers amps???
[I'm serious]
Anything along the line of a radar jammer, maybe?... so i can sit at my steel and control the volume of other players amps without them knowing what's going on???

I usually just stick a phillips-head in the input jacks and make like I'm trying to start one of those old cars where you had to stand in front and crank start 'em!
It's hard to do this though, and not get caught by someone.

~pb

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 21 Aug 2008 2:25 pm

better be careful with that chord chart comment..what if the band leader brings TWO chord charts, one for the guitar player and one for you

I kinda like chord charts,it's been years since I've used one on a gig but I generally write a chart for new tunes we may be thinking of learning ( if necessary) and the few sessions I have done they came in VERY handy.

tp ( Telecaster Player)

Dave Harmonson · Post by **Dave Harmonson** » 21 Aug 2008 2:41 pm

Putting a chord chart in front of a guitar player won't get him to turn down if he never looks at it anyway.

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 21 Aug 2008 3:04 pm

Trade all the tele players in for fiddle players.

Heard Johnny Cox with Jody Nix a little over a week ago. There is not a six string guitar of any kind in the band. Also no keyboard.

Twin fiddles, steel guitar, electric bass, drums behind great vocals and harmony.

That is how it is done.

my 2c

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 22 Aug 2008 1:53 am

it's not the guitar..

or the brand

or the model

I'm thinking it is the player...

but I could be wrong..

I've never heard a Steel player play too loud or too much either

Mike Archer · Post by **Mike Archer** » 22 Aug 2008 5:54 am

this post seems a little harsh to me

if a tele player is to loud just tell them

or any player for that matter

while it is true some guitar players play to LOUD

it is also true some Steel players do as well

the mind set of any band should be team work

i GOT THE FIRE EXT READY SO FLAME AWAY
IMHO Mike

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 22 Aug 2008 8:25 am

Mike, you are my friend and you are right. I do not mean to lump all "Tele" players into one but it seems Keith has a problem with a guitar player and I can sympathize with him. The main problem is that ego gets in the way. I have been the band leader at the Little O' Oprey for 15 years and the last time I told a guitar player he was playing rhythm too loud, he said he would play the following week to give us time to find another guitar player then he was quitting. That is a shame. I look at a band as if it were a team. If everyone is a team player they should be open to improving the team. The toughest thing is to get a lead player to understand whether he be keyboard player, guitar player etc is that the rhythm needs to be carried by the drums, bass and rhythm guitar if there is one in the band. There should not be a drop off while he is playing a solo then he bust in and cover up the next solo with a loud rhythm. I'm sure any bandwise pro player who is working knows this but it is a real problem in the weekend warrior scene. This problem is not just with 6 string players, but any lead instrument that alters the rhythm sound when he is playing a solo or fills and when he is not. I have also heard my share of steel players who play too loud in my opinion but that is a completely different problem.
Jerry

Mike Archer · Post by **Mike Archer** » 22 Aug 2008 9:04 am

so true Jerry

and I know how Keith feels for sure
and a person doesnt want to be blown away
by other players

where some players miss the boat is they
play in the wrong place at the wrong time and
most often to loud to boot

we in our band watch each other close and only one
play one at a time unless we are doing lines together sometimes when im playing tele I dont play
anything AT ALL others soft cords adding to
the sound not blaring out

when its my time to play I do just that PLAY

Mike

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 22 Aug 2008 10:25 am

Mike, that is one of the traits you have that help make you a pro and I'm sure one who is a pleasure to play with. I would love to get to play with you sometime. My thinking is that there should be no drop off or sudden boost to the rhythm section when any one player kicks into a solo or fill or when he is finished with his (or her

part. I don't play rhythm or loud comp chords to cover up the lead guitar player and the overall sound of the band is better if the lead guitar player does't interfer with what I am trying to do. Again, this is my theory, the drums or the bass are usually not playing in the same tone frequency that I am so there is no coverup, masking or cancelling of my notes. On the other hand, the chords being played by an electric guitar are in the frequency range I am playing in most of the time and it creates a tone killer of my guitar plus a noise confusion instead of tasteful music. Mike I hope somehow we can get together next year at the Gospel show in Nashville. I will start on it earlier next year.
Jerry

Mike Archer · Post by **Mike Archer** » 22 Aug 2008 11:03 am

it would be my pleasure and i will look forward to it!!

right on all posts you are!!

Mike

Ellis Miller · Post by **Ellis Miller** » 22 Aug 2008 11:22 am

I have some rules for when I play my Tele:

1. Don't play over the singer
2. Wait your turn on fills and solos
3. Less is more
4. Never miss an opportunity to shut up.
5. Never let the steel player see your posts on the forum. He might hold you to it.

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 22 Aug 2008 11:42 am

Why do 6 string guitar players think they have to carry the rhythum of the band by playing chords? Why don't they just quit playing until it comes their turn? If they would do that I don't care how loud they play. Another problem besides volume is a person playing fill constantly. Rick Nicklas, remember the fiddle player in Fred Lacey's band? Constant sawing, it drove me and Gary Wilson up the wall. Probably the worst is a church piano player who tries to play with a band. They play at full volume, and play all the time, not knowing any different. Players used to doing a single, duo, or trio get into a rut of playing too much in a larger band. I agree with Jerry Roller, you can't tell a player anything about his playing without making him mad. This is especially true the older a player gets. Besides, I am not getting paid to run a school, all I want to do is play steel? Most of the time the best thing you can play is NOTHING! I have a great idea! I can build a volume pedal with a timer on it. It runs for 10 seconds, then shuts everything off for 40 seconds, then comes on for another 10 seconds--- and so on. With a pedal like that you could force a guitar player to take parts.

The Steel Guitar Forum

I found the solution to loud Telecaster guitars.

I found the solution to loud Telecaster guitars.

this post

so true

thanks Jerry