I'm looking for a nice 6-string electric lap steel to play mostly Hawaiian music in lowbass G and C6 tuning. After spending a few months looking here and at other forums "for sale" sections, I've determined that there are far too many to choose from since I don't a darned thing about electric steels.
When it comes to reso's and weisseneborns, I'm pretty familiar with what's out there and what sounds good to my ears, but electric steels are completely new to me.
What do have for sale that would fit my needs? I'm not interested in "student" or "begginer" models cause money isnt' really an issue, the only issue is sound. Something that will sound sweet as I play Hawaiian music with my friends and for gigs.
Great sounding, quality 6-string
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Jordan Sayers
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Phill Martin
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Jordan Sayers
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Denny Turner
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Jordan,
No "student or beginner" models???? Heck, the nature of Steel is to be a lifetime Student !
The matter of tone is a broad subject that invites allot of opinions, many of which differ. A New Yorker is certainly a ringer for your specific questions; But there might be more options to suit the scope of your questioning. Allow me to give some ideas a shot:
I'm not sure what you mean by "no student / beginner models" while asking at the same time for advice on Hawaiian sound. The difference between "Student' and "Advanced (?)" models among many if not most manufacturers was not much difference at all in the mechanics, but mostly in marketing via model names and their different appointments, often not much difference even in appointments; And some brands marketed as "Student" models sound as good or better than other brands with more "advanced" marketing names, especially for mellower Hawaiian type tones. Supro / Valco is a good example where they're all about the same regardless of the marketing name applied to models for market / price niche purposes; And Gibson did the same thing, particularly with it's P90 based models.
I think you're wise to ask about brands / models that suit the tones you desire. I suggest giving some time for replies before making a decision.
The commonly referenced / thought-of Hawaiian tones (instrument wise) can be dialed in on "any" Steel, and come "mostly" from a sweet spot setting of the tone control way back where the treble tone just starts to come online. Here's how Jerry Byrd taught finding that sweet spot (and of course he was right on): Roll the volume back to about 8/10 (the volume control will later fine-tune the tone control setting), ...then roll the tone all the way off then slowly back on until you hear treble just starting to come in, STOP, and now fine tune it in tiny experimental increments to the tone you like, ...then fine tune it even more with the volume control (more volume = tiny more treble; less volume = tiny bit less treble). I'm not aware of any brand / model Steel whose electronics were made to eliminate fuller treble tones when desired, and thus none I'm aware of made for "Hawaiin" tone. Go to a music store and try that tone setting technique on the bridge pickup of different brands and model guitars; You will see that there isn't much difference in that sweet "Hawaiin" tone spot between brand and models!
Addressing your "no student / beginner" models, ....leaves Fender Stringmasters and Professionals, Gibson Consoles (because their lap models were pretty much the same tones in a similar design series regardless of the model name and appointments for marketing), National New Yorkers, Rickenbachers (although Rickenbacher Ace marketed for lower end / "students" were about the same tones), .......and a mere model name on a Supro / Valco wouldn't distinguish much between "student" and "advanced" models. But other than most of the above not being thought of as "student / beginner", only a particular model's unique tone (such as the New Yorker, Rickenbachers, Stringmaster, Professional, etc. among others) would be subject to the matter of tone that other models might and usually can provide as well, just not a particular model's unique tone(s).
It would take allot of time to expound upon nuances between different Steel brands and models, ...and I'll "bet" you'll get some pretty good reply ideas in this discussion chain; But here's some Steels I have that suit "Hawaiin" tones well; Although I simply can't make a distinction between "Student" and "Advanced (?)" for tones:
ALOHA HAWAII: Very broad range of tones including mellow tones very suitable to Hawaiian. A bit less signal voltage than, say, a Fender trapezoid model or "Stringmaster" type (even Fender swapped names around among models for marketing, and some of their "Champion" style Steels didn't have award winning tone!), or Supro / Valcos with "bunker" pickups, Or Gibsons. But of course an amp has a volume control too, and is often bumped up to compensate for lower volume thus tone settings on a guitar!:
http://dennysguitars.homestead.com/alohalap1.html
HARMONY: Quite comparable to Gibson P-90, and to their short-lived models with P-13 speed-bump pickup they sold to Rowe-DeArmond in 1940, which had a bit more dynamic response than narrower / tighter P-90's:
http://dennysguitars.homestead.com/harmonyviola1.html
HARMONY: P-13 pickup. Pretty much the same steel as Gibson or Kay speed-bump models, just not as fancy a wood grain to show with translucent finishes like Gibson:
http://dennysguitars.homestead.com/Harm ... Tone1.html
SUPRO: Any of the Supro / Valco's listed on my inventory page; Because again, they all sound as much the same as any other brand's similar models named and/or shaped differently:
http://dennysguitars.homestead.com/stee ... ndex1.html
REGAL: Here's the same Rowe-DeArmong "motel soap bar" pickup that's on the Aloha Hawaii brand; Same sounds ... just quite different and fancier form and appointments:
http://dennysguitars.homestead.com/Rega ... teNM1.html
GUYATONE: Even Guyatones were popular among Hawaiin Steelers:
http://dennysguitars.homestead.com/Guyatone1.html
All the above are listed / priced on the Steels inventory page:
http://dennysguitars.homestead.com/stee ... ndex1.html
Please EMAIL any questions you might have for me personally; I often can't get back here as often as I like.
No "student or beginner" models???? Heck, the nature of Steel is to be a lifetime Student !
The matter of tone is a broad subject that invites allot of opinions, many of which differ. A New Yorker is certainly a ringer for your specific questions; But there might be more options to suit the scope of your questioning. Allow me to give some ideas a shot:
I'm not sure what you mean by "no student / beginner models" while asking at the same time for advice on Hawaiian sound. The difference between "Student' and "Advanced (?)" models among many if not most manufacturers was not much difference at all in the mechanics, but mostly in marketing via model names and their different appointments, often not much difference even in appointments; And some brands marketed as "Student" models sound as good or better than other brands with more "advanced" marketing names, especially for mellower Hawaiian type tones. Supro / Valco is a good example where they're all about the same regardless of the marketing name applied to models for market / price niche purposes; And Gibson did the same thing, particularly with it's P90 based models.
I think you're wise to ask about brands / models that suit the tones you desire. I suggest giving some time for replies before making a decision.
The commonly referenced / thought-of Hawaiian tones (instrument wise) can be dialed in on "any" Steel, and come "mostly" from a sweet spot setting of the tone control way back where the treble tone just starts to come online. Here's how Jerry Byrd taught finding that sweet spot (and of course he was right on): Roll the volume back to about 8/10 (the volume control will later fine-tune the tone control setting), ...then roll the tone all the way off then slowly back on until you hear treble just starting to come in, STOP, and now fine tune it in tiny experimental increments to the tone you like, ...then fine tune it even more with the volume control (more volume = tiny more treble; less volume = tiny bit less treble). I'm not aware of any brand / model Steel whose electronics were made to eliminate fuller treble tones when desired, and thus none I'm aware of made for "Hawaiin" tone. Go to a music store and try that tone setting technique on the bridge pickup of different brands and model guitars; You will see that there isn't much difference in that sweet "Hawaiin" tone spot between brand and models!
Addressing your "no student / beginner" models, ....leaves Fender Stringmasters and Professionals, Gibson Consoles (because their lap models were pretty much the same tones in a similar design series regardless of the model name and appointments for marketing), National New Yorkers, Rickenbachers (although Rickenbacher Ace marketed for lower end / "students" were about the same tones), .......and a mere model name on a Supro / Valco wouldn't distinguish much between "student" and "advanced" models. But other than most of the above not being thought of as "student / beginner", only a particular model's unique tone (such as the New Yorker, Rickenbachers, Stringmaster, Professional, etc. among others) would be subject to the matter of tone that other models might and usually can provide as well, just not a particular model's unique tone(s).
It would take allot of time to expound upon nuances between different Steel brands and models, ...and I'll "bet" you'll get some pretty good reply ideas in this discussion chain; But here's some Steels I have that suit "Hawaiin" tones well; Although I simply can't make a distinction between "Student" and "Advanced (?)" for tones:
ALOHA HAWAII: Very broad range of tones including mellow tones very suitable to Hawaiian. A bit less signal voltage than, say, a Fender trapezoid model or "Stringmaster" type (even Fender swapped names around among models for marketing, and some of their "Champion" style Steels didn't have award winning tone!), or Supro / Valcos with "bunker" pickups, Or Gibsons. But of course an amp has a volume control too, and is often bumped up to compensate for lower volume thus tone settings on a guitar!:
http://dennysguitars.homestead.com/alohalap1.html
HARMONY: Quite comparable to Gibson P-90, and to their short-lived models with P-13 speed-bump pickup they sold to Rowe-DeArmond in 1940, which had a bit more dynamic response than narrower / tighter P-90's:
http://dennysguitars.homestead.com/harmonyviola1.html
HARMONY: P-13 pickup. Pretty much the same steel as Gibson or Kay speed-bump models, just not as fancy a wood grain to show with translucent finishes like Gibson:
http://dennysguitars.homestead.com/Harm ... Tone1.html
SUPRO: Any of the Supro / Valco's listed on my inventory page; Because again, they all sound as much the same as any other brand's similar models named and/or shaped differently:
http://dennysguitars.homestead.com/stee ... ndex1.html
REGAL: Here's the same Rowe-DeArmong "motel soap bar" pickup that's on the Aloha Hawaii brand; Same sounds ... just quite different and fancier form and appointments:
http://dennysguitars.homestead.com/Rega ... teNM1.html
GUYATONE: Even Guyatones were popular among Hawaiin Steelers:
http://dennysguitars.homestead.com/Guyatone1.html
All the above are listed / priced on the Steels inventory page:
http://dennysguitars.homestead.com/stee ... ndex1.html
Please EMAIL any questions you might have for me personally; I often can't get back here as often as I like.
Aloha,
Denny T~
http://www.dennysguitars.com/
Please help support humanity:
http://www.redcross.org/en/aboutus
Denny T~
http://www.dennysguitars.com/
Please help support humanity:
http://www.redcross.org/en/aboutus
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Jordan Sayers
- Posts: 32
- Joined: 15 Oct 2007 4:08 pm
- Location: Illinois, USA
Denny,Denny Turner wrote: I'm not sure what you mean by "no student / beginner models" while asking at the same time for advice on Hawaiian sound.
Thanks for the info! You sure have some nice one's available on your webpage.
By student/beginner models, I refer to some contemporary, low-price, import models I've played at some local shops with poor electronics/wiring, less-than-satisfactory sounding pickups, etc.; the one I played recently at a local shop was described by the owner as a "student" model and one that I might want to avoid if I'm serious about wanting to play. I appreciated his honesty!
When I was younger, I could only afford low-end household appliances, furniture, musical instruments, but as the years went on I learned that "When you buy quality, you only cry once".
Basically, I'm looking for a lap steel that will keep my happy for years, not one that will lead me to think "Gee, I really wish I would have spent a little more and got a nice one".
I'll get in touch with you offline about some of the instruments on your webpage.