10 E9 or U12 as a first PSG ?

[john dunne]

I continue to consider obtaining a PSG and continue to read the forum, have had a number of opportunuties for an instrument come and go but have been bothered by one question while I continue with guitar, mando, ddobro, lap steel and ukulele....( AADD )

Is there any reason to NOT start fresh on a Universal 12 if not going to play country primarily ? Learning is learning right ?

thanks for any advice offerred.

[Randy Pettit]

John,
I believe you will learn quicker on an S-10 E9 guitar (with 3 pedals and at least 4 knee levers) because of the multitude of learning material available for that tuning. Not saying that you CAN'T start out on a Universal, just that IMO you'll learn and progress quicker on an S-10 E9. You may find that an S-10 with 3x5 is all you need. You can always get an S-12 later on. If you stick with PSG, your first guitar will not likely be your last anyway.

[Jay Jessup]

Agreed, learning is learning and for me the easier and more straight forward things are the easier it is to take it all in. There are a lot of body parts that have to work together to make a steel sound good. Especially if you are primarily interested in country just stick to 10 string e-9, three pedals and four knees will take you a long way and if you plan to be a multi-instrumentalist then it's best to stick to a single body e-9 that way there will be less damage to whatever other instrument you are playing if you plan to play steel with another instrument in your lap as I used to do.

edit--whoops I misread your message as I now see you said not going to play country primarily but would still advise using the KISS theory for starters!

[Bob Hoffnar]

A simple E9 steel will give you plenty of musical options. There is no reason for it to sound particularly country unless you choose to play that style on it. It will be a good way to get started.

[Archie Nicol]

I can see no reason not to start on a uni'. The only difference between a single 10E9th and a uni' is the lack of the ninth string `D`, which you can get on a knee lever anyway. The uni' is also an extended E9th as you have the low G# and E.

Arch.

[Fred Glave]

First of all, can you play pedal steel at all yet? If not, you might want to explore the sound you want. The E9 has tons of possibilities, but having a 6th tuning is really nice too. If you have the opportunity to go to a music store and sit down behind different steels, you should probably do it. I started out on a double neck, and maybe I would be a better player at this point in time if I only had to deal with one neck, and one tuning? I'll never know, but I play a U12 now.

[john dunne]

So Fred - that's a definite maybe then ?

no steels in this godforsaken part of Ohio and I play Dobro, lap and Slide in G etc etc. but am interested mostly in the steel sonic landscapes of Leisz, Lanois, and other non-traditional ( read non country/swing ) applications of the instrument as a color tool in my work. Of course I just started playing ukulele in the show too so definite Attention Deficit Disorder may make a PSG a daunting endeavor !

thanks all. i get the fact that all the instructional materials are for E9 but it just seems to make more sense to me to start on Uni 12 although I will likely go the 10 string route.

[David Doggett]

My standard advice is this. If all you want to play is Nashville country and Western swing pedal steel, then start with 10-string E9 or a D10. On the other hand, many players who want to mainly play other genres, such as blues, rock, jazz and classical, want the extra strings and high flexibility of a 12-string universal. Plenty of people play these other genres on 10-string E9 and C6, but people who go deep into these other genres are the biggest proponents of the universal. If you are one of those, you can start on a universal. They cost only slightly more new, and the cost difference is neglibible on the used market.

A good hands-on teacher is a huge help. But the instruction material "problem" is really non-existent. The top 8 strings are identical on E9 and uni, which takes care of maybe 3/4 of all playing, and there is only a minor difference in the next two strings (you get one with a knee lever on a uni). It is very easy to adjust to that small difference in reading all the E9 instruction material out there. Actually, all the E9 materials are different from each other anyway, because of the nonstandard pedal and lever configurations. Uni is just one more of those. If you want instruction on C6, a uni is identical to that except the top few strings are in a different order. But again, most of the playing is is on the other strings that are identical. Of course the uni's B6 mode is off one fret from C6, but after you have been playing awhile, it is easy to accomodate that. The uni was designed to duplicate E9 and C6, and it does.

A uni does some very cool stuff that nothing else does, not even 12-string extended E9. There's a small amount of instruction material on that from Joe Wright, and maybe a few others? But since the bottom strings duplicate the top strings, it's not hard to figure out what to do with them yourself.

Finally, even a bunch of people only interested in country and swing like to have the E9 and the 6th neck integrated into one neck, for reasons of weight and compactness. Likewise, as I have said, plenty of people who play other genres prefer an S10 or D10. All of the notes are there on all of them. And you can learn on any of them. It is worth considering that many people get stuck with what they learn on; but many people switch also.

[john dunne]

Thanks Dave;
good advice - although I'll have to take your word for it for now on the technical explanations <g>

Wish I was back home in phila. to take a lesson or two.