Bypassing speaker on session 400?

John Kingsley · Post by **John Kingsley** » 9 Aug 2007 6:48 am

I am trying to do some basic home recording, and I'm running the session 400 into a m-audio pre amp interface box thing (via XLR), and straight into garageband. I don't want to mic it, cause then it will pick up the air conditioner, construction workers outside, biker gangs, etc...

The problem is, when you go line out on the amp, it doesn't bypass the speaker, and the thing is so darn loud, I feel like I'm going to break windows if i go up past 1.5 But when it records into the software, the sound is very faint.

Is there anyway to bypass the speaker?

Thanks,
John

Mike Wheeler · Post by **Mike Wheeler** » 9 Aug 2007 7:07 am

Just disconnect it. You won't harm the amp. Just make sure that the two speaker wires do not touch each other. If they do, while the power is on, the amp will die an expensive death...I'd suggest electrical tape on the loose wire.

John Kingsley · Post by **John Kingsley** » 9 Aug 2007 8:01 am

Perfect, thanks!

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 9 Aug 2007 8:07 am

Although it may not harm this amp, I wouldn't do it. I have blown other amps by disconnecting the speakers. I would use a direct box such as Peavey's EDI that goes between the amp and the speaker. These have an XLR out that puts out a mic level. You should get plenty of level there, and it emulates the speaker also. There are others available, but this is the one I use.

John Kingsley · Post by **John Kingsley** » 9 Aug 2007 8:17 am

There is a 1/4" plug that connects the speaker, so I'm assuming it's ok...i haven't had any problems so far.

Mike Wheeler · Post by **Mike Wheeler** » 9 Aug 2007 8:27 am

Good point, Darvin. I should have mentioned...DON'T DO THAT WITH A TUBE AMP! Disconnecting the speaker, then running the amp without the speaker load, would seriously damage, or destroy, the output transformer.

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 9 Aug 2007 8:58 am

As it is a direct coupled transistor amp it will be fine to run with no load (infinite impedance). Don't try it with an older capacitor coupled amps or a tube amp(as stated above). The older Fender amps had a shorting jack to ground on the main speaker jack to help avoid the loss of an output transformer. A lot of tube amps do not have this feature.

I like Darvin's idea of the ED-1. I use one and love it! Also has a ground lift to avoid ground loop hum. The booster output of the Session 400 is derived of the speaker output and is unbalanced. You can get hum when using it unless there is a Hum-x used on the amp or your direct box has ground lift and or a true balanced output (an output from a balanced means with no ground reference).

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 9 Aug 2007 10:36 am

My Session 400 had a mod done before I bought it where someoned added a direct out via a panel mount XLR connector on the back. I haven't really reverse engineered it, but it's basically a small transformer (maybe out of a direct box or something?) with the primary jumpered off the booster amp signal, and the secondary to the XLR connector. I don't remember seeing any Rs or Cs...

I've never used it actually, I like an SM-57 on the speaker better. Might try it one of these days, it's definitely convenient, and I like the idea that it's off the amp output.

I've also got an EDI I've used on other amps, and I would agree it's handy, particular the 'timbre' adjustment.

John Kingsley · Post by **John Kingsley** » 9 Aug 2007 12:07 pm

Thanks for all the info guys...

I don't know as much about amps as I should...but i'm learning!

I do a lot of sessions here at school (at berklee college of music) for students in the music production and engineering track who want to produce "country" stuff...some of the things I've heard that you guys may get a kick out of:

- "Do you just want to plug straight in to the board? You don't really need a DI for that, do you?"

- "How does running it through this Marshall half stack feel?"

When asked if I could borrow a volume pedal, when my buddy drove off to cape cod for 2 weeks and it was in his car (!)..."Sure, I've got a bunch of other stuff too, how about a Tube Screamer? Or an Octave Divider?"

- "Why don't you try and double the bass line here?"

And my all time personal favorite:

"How would it sound if we just stuck a mic under the guitar there and recorded it acoustic?"

Mike Wheeler · Post by **Mike Wheeler** » 9 Aug 2007 3:02 pm

Funny comments, but innocently ignorant. I'm glad you're there to inform them about the possibilities of pedal steel. We need more guys like you breaking into schools like Berklee. Hang in there, John.

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 9 Aug 2007 5:34 pm

I'd just close mic the amp. Your signal to external-noise ratio will be very high, so any other sounds will be so relatively faint or inaudible that it's no biggie. It's generally hard to beat the sound of a mic'd speaker.

Brad

Al Terhune · Post by **Al Terhune** » 9 Aug 2007 11:42 pm

So if you use the ED1, the speaker has no ouput?

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 10 Aug 2007 6:29 am

If you didn't want any output from the speaker, you could unplug it from the EDI.

Al Terhune · Post by **Al Terhune** » 10 Aug 2007 7:21 am

Got it -- very nice for amps that don't have the XLR output. While I do agree with Brad that if you've got the right mike and setting to record from the speaker, it's hard to beat; but there's also something about the crisp sound of going direct out of an amp. I've been experimenting recording two tracks using both to get the best of both worlds. The EDI is pretty expensive. Does it do something lesser expensive direct boxes don't? From the pictures I've seen, it allows an input for the speaker plus the additional XLR output. Is that the main difference? In looking at other DIs, there is simply the 1/4" input, a 1/4" thru input, and an XLR out. Would that be okay for solid states?

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 10 Aug 2007 3:10 pm

The Peavey EDI has a Timbre adjustment so you can adjust your tone slightly if need be. I have bought these used for $20 to $30.

Al Terhune · Post by **Al Terhune** » 10 Aug 2007 10:37 pm

Thanks, Dar. I'm on the lookout.

Terry Huval · Post by **Terry Huval** » 11 Aug 2007 6:12 am

I have 2 Peavey EDI boxes I no longer need. I would be willing sell them for $30 a piece, plus shipping -then I would send bOb a commission.

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 11 Aug 2007 7:35 am

My Session 400 came stock with a direct out - presumably a preamp out - thru an XLR jack on the back of the amp. Using it doesn't cut the feed to the power amp and speaker since it was meant to be used as a PA feed on large gigs. It sounds great thru the PA as well as a recording option and I use it like that often. The entire Joaquin Murphey CD "Murph" was recorded that way. I just turned the amp towards the sofa in the studio control room and put a large pillow across the back of the amp - dampening the amp speaker sound enough for the sound coming out of the studio monitors to be the dominant sound in the control room.A Fender Steel King has the same kind of option but with a volume pot and ground lift for the XLR preamp out and is in my opinion the best sounding way to record a steel guitar currently available.

Al Terhune · Post by **Al Terhune** » 11 Aug 2007 12:18 pm

Sounds good, Terry. I'll take one. You can email me at bodhisan@comcast.net

Thank ya.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 13 Aug 2007 4:46 am

Forgive me if my roots are showing, but I like the Marshall stack idea....

Al Terhune · Post by **Al Terhune** » 14 Aug 2007 8:58 pm

Ken Fox wrote:Don't try it with an older capacitor coupled amps or a tube amp(as stated above).

Ken: Would the ShoBud X-mas Tree be an older capacitor coupled amp, or would it be okay recording from the EDI with the speaker disconnected?