Is there any hope at all for music?

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 16 Feb 2007 7:36 am

I once again tuned into the Nashville Star show and I truly was looking for something good to say about the talent and there truly is some good talent on that show. But when you start of with excuse the expression, C-Rap with Cowboy Troy and Rich the shows theme "Nashville Star" any newbie viewer looking for a Nashville sound must think he is viewing a RAP show. Its too bad the judges can't get it out of there head that these are new people with their own styles. They want to judge them for the way the original record sounded instead of letting the originality of their talent be showcased. One week they don't like the song so they direct the singers to project differently. When they make the change they then comment in reverse. I don't care for the personalities of the "Idol" judges but they are judging for originality. These three airheads seem to be judging the songs and how they were originally performed. Either way its just a show and usually the winners have a short lived career on the Label they are vying for. Sad I just hope someday music will be re-discovered in Nashvilles produced shows. The Staff band however for this show is awesome.

Stu Schulman · Post by **Stu Schulman** » 16 Feb 2007 9:01 am

Joe,That show is a bad knock off of "Idol"Yes the band plays great,I wouldn't expect any less from those folks in Nashville...They have another show"Trick My Truck" another bad knock off of "Monster Garage' why don't they do something original
remember "American Music Shop"?

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 16 Feb 2007 9:17 am

There is no money in selling music anymore. The computer killed it. I think the vast majority of good music has already been recorded.

Greg Simmons · Post by **Greg Simmons** » 16 Feb 2007 9:37 am

If yer talking country...yes there is hope

http://www.mikestinson.net/

Simon Stephenson · Post by **Simon Stephenson** » 16 Feb 2007 12:52 pm

For every manufactured artist appearing on Idol or whatever, there are a hundred bands practicing in garages all across the world ready to take us all by storm. You NEVER know what's around the corner.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 16 Feb 2007 1:25 pm

My post addresses the idea more of rock music, as opposed to country, or jazz, or something else.

After receiving a Grammy the other night, one of the Chili Peppers encouraged kids to "start rock bands!"

I hope some kids were paying attention.

Simon is writing from England, but I have a gut level impression that here in the U.S., there just aren't nearly as many kids starting bands in their parents garages as there used to be. Just for the love of trying to play rock and roll music, and maybe several years down the line it will actually go somewhere, beyond the garage.

I think it is similar to not seeing kids playing non-organized baseball on school fields in the summer. There's still a lot of kids participating in Little League, but going out there with your buddies, for the sheer love of the game, and hitting the ball and throwing it around-as "civillians"-not in an organized Little League practice session with coaches-you just don't see that in the summertime like you used to.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 16 Feb 2007 11:28 pm

Regarding the state all music is in today,IMO it sucks,I hate political correctness,tell it like it is.I love and have always defended Classic country music,such as Hank Snow,Marty Robbins,Jim Reeves,Webb,Faron,Earnest,etc,etc,But I have other musical hero's as well,Charlie[Bird]Parker,Stan Getz,Wes Montgomery,All the Big bands,Pop and western swing,The great Do-Wop groups of the 50's such as the Platters,then in later years groups like the Eagles,What did all of the above have in common? Musical EXCELLENCE,Vocalist that could actually sing on KEY,gorgeous melodies,beautiful lyrics,[By the way been in a lot of honky tonks,never saw a bo-donk-a-donk,what ever the hell that is]IMO all these Hollyweird award shows you see all over the tube are just venues for the music industry to showcase their newest crap they have for sale.If a female is beautiful with enough cleaveage,or a guy in a dirty tanktop with pumped up biceps,can twrill a mikestand or smash a guitar on stage they CAN be a top ten star in this day and age,no musical talent required.There is hope,just visit some of the local bars,VFW's or American Legion club in some of our small towns scattered around our great country coast to coast,you will find some REAL pickers playing REAL music.They are the unsung hero's.If anyone wants to hear some REAL music,just log on PLAYA COFI JUKE BOX.Bama Charlie.

John Parker · Post by **John Parker** » 17 Feb 2007 3:57 pm

Just my $.02 worth, but there really is some good traditional type country music being recorded today. You won't hear it on the radio, though.

You have to look on some of the indie's web sites or artist's web pages to find it, but it's there.

Ron ! · Post by **Ron !** » 17 Feb 2007 4:54 pm

Hmmmmmmmmm....all of you are correct here in one way or the other.Young talent that is trying to make "Some" difference(when it comes to country old style)is judged in a way they should not be judged.
All of us should be glad that this young talent has the guts and the b--s to try and blow some new life in our beloved C&W world.

Let's face it....living on memories will get you no where in this life.It is good to try and hold on to old things but the time has come to let the younger generation show what they can and want to do.
Mark is right on the money here.We should support kids to start their own group.
I watched a little bit of that Idols show this afternoon.....and I have to say....Simon is the worst case I have ever layed eyes on.He was put in place a couple episodes ago when a girl told him..."I don't hear you sing".....and right "there" he did shut up.Further more......Paula...stick with choreography.That is what I think of Idols....

But that will not give me the right to judge those kids for what they are trying to do.Neither does that give the judges at Idols the right to push kids in a corner,because that is exactly what they are doing right now.
It takes a lot of guts to go on national television and audition.Those boys and girls are there to prove something to themselfs and the society.And that is that they are strong enough to make it if they want to.

Charlie.......if we keep up what we are doing now,we will be out of work in a couple of years.I am not judging you because every man/woman is entitled to have his/her opinion.But these kids are the future.We made the path....now let them walk on it and finish what we started.My wife has 3 recordlabels and if we have the chance to promote one of those kids and make him/her a big star then we will go out of our way to do that.

We have to support them as much as we can.Holding them back will only cause friction.
Sure..........there still are people(a lot)that want to hear the older style music.That will always be,but MO is,that it is time to open up and let the younger generation have their share of fame.

Ron

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 17 Feb 2007 8:18 pm

Ron,You made some very good points there,But I'm too old,too conservative,too hardheaded,and too opinionated to worry about the future,perfer to live in the past,much more pleasant there.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 18 Feb 2007 4:00 am

The boomers have an ironclad lock on what is, and isn't, defined as "good music" these days. That's why all the new rock bands (that are allowed on the radio) sound like pastiches and collages of other, older rock bands, and why all the new country songs are derived from older forms. Look at all these amp modelers - millions of dollars of research put into using brand-new technology to imitate the sound of 40-year-old tube amps, instead of making something that sounds new and even better. "What could possibly be better than the old songs and the old ways?" - old fogey-speak?

There's a process here - the new kids invent something that the stupid old people hate, the stupid old people die off, the new kids grow up to be the new stupid old people, etc. There does seem to be a sense that our culture is locked into a real dead-end spiral right now, but I'm not sure it isn't just a result of the size of the demographic bubble that's got the locks on right now - I can't claim to have the perspective to know, it'll be up to the historians in a few hundred years (if there are still people left....) Is "Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie Yellow Polka Dot Bikini" really Greater Art than "Oops!... I Did It Again"? "Da Doo Ron Ron" vs. Achy Breaky Heart"?

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 18 Feb 2007 12:59 pm

Not if the Dixie Chicks get grammy. They aren't Country!

Leigh Howell · Post by **Leigh Howell** » 19 Feb 2007 9:43 am

I dont watch any of the talent shows on tv, simply because I dont like them. There are some great musicians, and some folks with really good vocal talent, but I would rather see folks pickin and singin on the back porch somewhere in the Blue Ridge mountains. Doin it for the sheer pleasure of it!!! But differents strokes for different folks!!!

Leigh

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 19 Feb 2007 10:43 am

"Not if the Dixie Chicks get grammy. They aren't Country!"

I don't think they got their grammy for best country album did they?

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 19 Feb 2007 10:59 am

Personally, I can't keep up with all the great music that is coming out. A few weeks ago I saw sax player Bill Evans playing jazz with Sam Bush on Mandolin at the Bluenote. An amazing concert. A few nights later I saw Jerry Douglas at B B Kings put on an amazing show and his latest CD just blows me away. The Biscuit Burners are putting out some incredible stuff as is Rob Ickes. His dobro jazz CD is getting a lot of time in my Ipod shuffle and I just ordered his new trio album. This is not to mention all the great jazz cd's coming out right now.

My problem is not that there is no new music, there is way to much to keep track of it all. I make a new discovery almost every day. And this is above and beyond all the classic records I'm just getting around to listening to.

To me it seems as if many of you are limited to top 40 country music radio stations for your listening pleasure. To me the question is not "does music have a future" but why do you place such limitations on your music enjoyment.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 19 Feb 2007 11:24 am

"Personally, I can't keep up with all the great music that is coming out"

Amen, Bill!

I saw Blue Highway last night, and the theater almost went up in flames from the heat emanating from Rob Ickes' Scheerhorn resonator guitar!

Folks are constantly lamenting the "Chesneyfication" of the mainstream "today's hot country" stations. Why care?

Bobby Caldwell · Post by **Bobby Caldwell** » 19 Feb 2007 11:38 am

As long as Johnny Bush, Bobby Flores, Justin Travino and Jake Hooker keep recording with all those great Texas musicians country music is in good hands. Keep up the good work guys, you are the light at the end of tunnel. Bobby

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 19 Feb 2007 12:11 pm

Personally, I can't keep up with all the great music that is coming out.

As long as Johnny Bush, Bobby Flores, Justin Travino and Jake Hooker keep recording with all those great Texas musicians country music is in good hands.

Why care?

I agree that there's tons of great music being made right now. But the thing that concerns me is that if there's no real mainstream venue for great music, how much longer before it just slips away from the culture? I think it requires a certain amount of exposure and even training to really appreciate great music - if the bulk of the culture doesn't ever get exposed to it, I'm concerned it could just fade away, over time, by default. I could accept the fading away of old ideas if I thought they were consciously being replaced with something people really preferred - real change must ultimately be accepted. But my sense is that this stuff is being artificially stifled in the mainstream.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 19 Feb 2007 12:37 pm

I think the days of mainstream music is over and done with. There has been a fracturing of media outlets for decades, starting with cable TV and of course the mother of stratification , the Internet.

Certainly, the blues, folk music, sacred and gospel music, and even jazz has never been mainstream but that has never stopped practitioners from learning and evolving the music.

On the contrary I think segmentation is a good thing in that it enables affinity groups who keep the music alive. Bluegrass is a good example. Look at all the divergence that has gone on in that medium, from Alison Krauss to Daug Music. It can't get any air play, but there is more going on in that branch of music than nearly any other.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 19 Feb 2007 12:51 pm

Can't argue that point, Dave. Mainstream support would obviously make things easier.

But I take kind've a "think globally, act locally" approach.

My wife and I took another couple to see Blue Highway last night.

The lady is a classically trained pianist, and phenomenal soprano, used to be a member of the San Francisco Opera. She is also a professional voice teacher.

I got her into Alison Krauss & Union Station with Jerry Douglas a couple of years ago, and now I have her on the Rob Ickes program. She hasn't heard (yet) the What It Is jazz-flavored album from Rob, as alluded to above by Bill McCloskey.

But with no prompting from me (the local pied piper of dobro players), after watching Rob execute some very jazz-like licks within the context of a progressive bluegrass band, she said in the car on the way home, "I could see where you might want to play a dobro in jazz , the nature of the instrument would lend itself to that kind of music, instead of being thought of as only some kind of stereotyped 'hillbilly' thing."

Now bear in mind, because of her background, she musically doesn't fall in with the "unwashed masses," and not that I'm in danger of becoming a fan, but I have learned some things from her about opera.

Another friend of ours is more of a "project," but she is coming around. She is one of those people who has managed to make it almost all the way to 50 with virtually no knowledge of the pedal steel and what it's all about.

We took her awhile back to see the western swing band Lost Weekend, with Bobby Black on pedal steel. I took her up front to meet Bobby during the break, and I explained to her what he was doing with the pedals and the knees on his Carter. She thoroughly enjoyed it.

She asked me yesterday if I had ever head of this guy Chet Atkins? She found an old Chet album on vinyl at a garage sale, I don't remember the title, but she likes to buy old vinyl for cheesy album covers more than anything else.

After I picked up my jaw from the floor and told her who Chet Atkins was I added, "Ginnie, you need to spend about two hours, one night a week, with me for the next several weeks so I can get you up to speed on music you should listen to."

Think globally, act locally!

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 19 Feb 2007 2:37 pm

Bobby is right about Johnny Bush etc,also IMO Dale Watson is the absolute BEST we have today as far as REAL honest to goodness honky tonk music[not to be associated with such crud as Bo-Donk-A-Donk Honky-Tonk]His talent is lightyears ahead of ANYTHING you will see or hear on TV or FM radio.Wonder why? maybe the music industry is afraid the public will understand that Chesney,Big and Rich,and Cowboy Troy is NOOOOT country music.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 19 Feb 2007 2:48 pm

Ment to say wonder why you want see Dale on any the tv shows or hear him on fm radio.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 19 Feb 2007 4:32 pm

I do tend to agree with D-Mudge about the danger of music appreciation slipping away out of the cultural mainstream. Music has become so commodified and become such a signifier in the TV-addled masses that I know that very many people can't really even hear melodies and themes. I have a couple of 14-ish guitar students who have the attention span of gnats - they can easily listen to 20 tune snippits in a couple of minutes with their iPods (yakking the whole time), which is about the way music is presented to them in "real" life. They can't believe that the way to learn a guitar solo is to sit down with the recording and play it over and over and over, trying out different notes until bit by bit they unlock it - they think I'm supposed to figure it out for them....

This one kid John is an excellent classical pianist, he's asking me for sheet music for "Layla" & "Jumping Jack Flash"? Like, kiddo....

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 19 Feb 2007 10:41 pm

When you mention mainsteam music I get to wondering if the music was ever any good. There were a lot of hits on the pop that I used to like, and today I find myself wondering why.

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Dayna Wills · Post by **Dayna Wills** » 19 Feb 2007 10:45 pm

I saw Nashville Star for the first time last year. A gal came out, sang AND yodelled "I Want to be a Cowboy's Sweetheart" and the female judge looked at her and said, "Honey, you're in Nashville." She didn't even know that that song was the first million seller or even who recorded it. Wynona did and made mention of it, (I think) to show the audience and the contestants just what they were up against with that judge. That alone should show you that these people have no clue what came BEFORE they landed on the planet. DUH!

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Is there any hope at all for music?

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