Notorious Byrd Brothers

[John De Maille]

If it wasn't for the "Byrds", I would have never gotten interested in the pedal steel. That "new sound", to me, was very intriquing and I had to find out what is was. That, my friends, started my quest to learn pedal steel! It's been a long and sometimes rocky affair, but, I'll never regret doing it.

[Chip Fossa]

To clarify, cuz the 2 songs were getting a bit mixed up in discussion (WBTF & CIN), I don't think there is any steel in WBTF; and the only steel I hear in CIN is in the 'chorus' part.

[Jim Sliff]

Wow - I've been missing in action.
One of my favorite albums of all time.

I think Bob and I discussed it once before and got throttled..oh, well.

Anyway - yes it was Red, Yes, Clarence, and yes Crosby on the high harmonies.

The Clarke/Gordon story has been in the rumor mill for years. IMO the drumming is far too accurate to possibly be Mike (great guy but...well...his dumming...errr....)



We used to do WBTF in our old "Power Trio", The Rocky Mountain Barking Spiders - 12 string acoustic, vocals, bass and me on mando and dobro. I played that one on dobro, which works great. In the tune you hear a faint bend at the end of certain lines, and I pulled that one behind the bar. Man, that was a fun tune!

[Chip Fossa]

Tried to explain.....new keyboard...Huge letters....

[Brint Hannay]

I don't think there is any steel in WBTF

I disagree. I think if you pan the balance all the way right (I did have my speakers reversed--what I'm saying is steel is on the right) to get Clarence's guitar intro out of the mix, and listen to the intro before the vocal begins, the sound of the fingerpicked rolls, especially the higher notes that only happen in the intro (but are hard to focus on behind Clarence's licks), is unmistakably steel guitar to my ear.

The steel doesn't do any bendy-slidey stuff in the song, just the rolls. The two "call" bends after "If you think I'm ready" sound like overdubs probably by Clarence.

Roger, if you are reading this, can you clear this earth-shaking issue up for us?

[Chip Fossa]

Brint, Roger already responded (to my email).

I posted it on page 2.

He says Clarence did the intro. Wouldn't he mention if there was a steel in there, too?

I think the two parts (I'm now panning and listening several times) are Clarence. After all, he was a master of steel sounds [ala Telecaster]; even BEFORE the string bender came into the picture.

[b0b]

WBTF = Wasn't Born To Follow

CIN = Change Is Now

[Brint Hannay]

Brint, Roger already responded (to my email).

I posted it on page 2.

He says Clarence did the intro. Wouldn't he mention if there was a steel in there, too?

With all due respect to Roger, he provided only half of the answer.

Brint, I'll acquiesece.

Pedal steel opens the song, and then Clarence.

Will the real Chip Fossa please stand up?

[Chip Fossa]

I previously mis-diagnosed WBTF in the beginning of this topic.

I think I admitted to such.

After thinking and listening more about it, and Roger's clarification, I changed my mind. I can do that.

Brint, here's Roger's email. It's easily accessible on his website; and he was very quick and responsive.

Give him a try. That should resolve the issue.

roger.mcguinn@gmail.com

[Joachim Kettner]

I heard the intro like that:

-G---------------------C----------------G---------------C

3-------10B-----10B--------------
4-----10------10----------8-------8--- repeat 3 times
5--10A-----10A---------8------8-----
6---------------------8------8-------

WBTF, CIN,
CTA 102:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CTA-102

[Bob Carlucci]

It's not the bend licks that are steel, it's the steady fingerpicking roll that runs through the song except for the instrumental break. It re-enters with the vocal at 1:30, after the instrumental break. Unless I have my computer speakers backwards, it's in the left channel mainly, with Clarence on the right.

Correct... The "pedal steel" licks are Clarance leaning on his Parson's/White... The steady roll is a steel... bob

[Chip Fossa]

OK,

I re-sent Roger another email, asking him to clarify this dilemma.

He did not respond.

...and so the mystery goes on, as far as I'm concerned.

Here it is:

[Brint Hannay]

I am reviving this thread to mention that something posted in the Gone Home section re "Red Rhodes-17 years ago"

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=232038

may very well bear on what we were debating here:
(excerpted and emphasis added by me)

From a letter dated August 21, 1995 by Groove Tubes president Aspen Pittman:

To: All GT Friends and Relations

Dear Friends,

I am sorry to report that our good friend, Red Rhodes passed away Sunday morning. Red had bad lungs, due to interstitial lung fibrosis resulting from rheumatoid arthritis.

...

Red played the steel guitar for just about everybody. His beautifully understated playing will live on in hundreds of recordings from a wide range of bands including...The Byrds (Born to Follow)...

Repeating what I posted in that thread:

I couldn't help noticing that Mr. Pittman credited Red with playing on The Byrds' "[Wasn't] Born to Follow." We had a lively controversy here on the Forum a while back about whether or not there was steel on that cut, with several Forumites maintaining there was not.

Attempts to get Roger (Jim) McGuinn or Chris Hillman to settle the dispute were unsuccessful, but perhaps Mr. Pittman's input, as one who had close association with Red, may help to settle the question.

[Joachim Kettner]

In the coming issue of Uncut magazine, will be an article about the producing of "The Notorious Byrd Brothers".
http://www.uncut.co.uk/magazine/november-2012

[scott murray]

i never really rhought of this song as having steel, but it sure does. it's all over the NBB album in fact.

also, it was recorded before Clarence had a bender, those bending licks at :50 are most likely steel too and they sure sound like Red.