Are You a Steel Guitar Player or a Musician?

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 24 Feb 2006 11:48 am

As usual, Bobbe presents some great thoughtfood.

have you seen a young 20 year old kid player who played such a blazingly fast array of notes that you couldn’t believe, only to find out he couldn’t give you an intro to Crazy Arms. I would not call him a musician regardless of how dazzling he executed his amazing array of notes.

I assume he's speaking rhetorically here, but I'd have to say there are a few very creative, musical players out there who have no idea what "Crazy Arms" is all about, or could "give you an intro" to many classic country songs- yet contribute great musicallity to the productions they're involved with.
Is it possible to define "musicianship on steel guitar" without the confines of the country genre? I got a real kick out of the humor post on "rules for steel guitar".

I wonder if Coltrane ever threw down on "Yakety Sax"...

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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

Bob Wood · Post by **Bob Wood** » 24 Feb 2006 12:13 pm

Is there a difference between a Steel Guitar Player and a Musician?

Bob

Ron Sodos · Post by **Ron Sodos** » 24 Feb 2006 12:28 pm

Seems llike many guys on the forum like to play these games of semantics. You would be better off going to your steel and practicing. These word games are useless and a waste of time.

Ron Scott · Post by **Ron Scott** » 24 Feb 2006 12:51 pm

I have also played many years.Self taught for a lot then going to siminar's help open up my eyes to lots of different directions.I don't play like Mr Franklin,Mr Emmons or the well know players who have made a living out of it but I play what I like now that I don't play out anymore....It is better for me...When I get tired I quit and cover it up.....You just don't have the tuned edge the everyday player has....RS

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Franklin Guitars

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 24 Feb 2006 1:02 pm

Although I'm no where near the same class as the master "musician's" noted in Bobbe's newsletter, I still consider myself a musician.

We often tend to sell ourselves short because we can't compete or play at the same level as the Big E, for example. There are a lot of pickers that I would classify as "musician's" that will never play as well or at the speed of someone such as Paul Franklin, Jr or Tommy White.

However, another quality that I consider in a musician is creativity. There are musician's (steel, lead or whatever) that can play great and have a wide repitoire (Sp?) but if you get them in a studio and they have to create it's a totally different story.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 24 Feb 2006 2:05 pm

Simply put....YES

John Drury · Post by **John Drury** » 24 Feb 2006 10:29 pm

John Davis, Hey! I know Jack $h1t!

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John Drury
NTSGA #3

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 24 Feb 2006 11:22 pm

you want a good tight band? hire all the John Davis's, and Bob Carluccis' you can find!!!!!

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 25 Feb 2006 1:34 am

I consider myself first and foremost an entertainer.

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 25 Feb 2006 7:04 am

This is a loaded question since everyone knows the better answer. Rather than answering the question, I would offer a check list of items that can be considered important to being a musician. No one, not even the best players in the world, can do all of it, but the more items on the list you can do, and the better you can do each one, then the more you will be perceived as a musician rather than a steel player. Each item could be discussed and written about for hours, if not days. Off the top of my head, in no particular order, all are very important, and any of them must combine with everthing else. You're welcome to add to the list.

1. Perfect intonation
2. Touch
3. Tone
4. Improvisational ability
5. Recording ability
6. Creative soloing ability
7. Creative playing fills
8. Phrasing
9. Articulation
10. Rhythm and timing
11. Reading ability
12. Compositional ability
13. Transposing ability
14. Versatility - pop,swing,blues,rock,jazz
15. Hearing and playing the melody
16. Hearing and playing the harmony
17. Hearing the chord progression
18. Knowing theory
19. Technique playing fast
20. Technique playing slow
21. Playing all different time signatures
22. Playing all different grooves

That's it for now.

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Jeff's Jazz

Tim Harr · Post by **Tim Harr** » 25 Feb 2006 7:33 am

I am a musician.

Interesting topic.

[This message was edited by Tim Harr on 26 February 2006 at 12:41 PM.]

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 25 Feb 2006 8:34 am

I have to ask this here.

How or what determines whether or not someone is a musician or a guitar player?

When I am playing my upright bass or my chromatics, I don't have to think about where I am fitting in with the music, it's just there inside of me or, at least me head. I am not even aware of a conscious thought process taking place.

While playing my steel however, I am very much in the conscious thought mode of thinking about how to fit into the music or when I should be silent.

So, where do I fit in?

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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 25 Feb 2006 12:25 pm

...23.Taste...

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http://home.comcast.net/~steves_garage

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 25 Feb 2006 1:14 pm

I call myself an "Entertainer", and I'm content with that.

EJL

Herman Visser · Post by **Herman Visser** » 25 Feb 2006 2:00 pm

YES >>> I have Two Steel Guitars. Player Mmmmm..... Musican Nope maybe some day.I Play great in the closet and Im not coming out ( Yet )

Rodney Garrison · Post by **Rodney Garrison** » 25 Feb 2006 2:46 pm

Herman, you are right on with me. I've been at this string stuff since'64. It's just now makin' cents. I have a Jeff Newman quote on THEORY from one of his seminars in Irving 'Tex. It'sw pretty good and I'll find it and post it. That is makin' cents.

John Sluszny · Post by **John Sluszny** » 25 Feb 2006 3:13 pm

Both!

Bill Ford · Post by **Bill Ford** » 25 Feb 2006 4:09 pm

Neither...but I own a purty S12 PSG.

BF

Gordon Borland · Post by **Gordon Borland** » 25 Feb 2006 6:54 pm

I am whatever whoever is listening to me play thinks I am.

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Gordon Borland
MSA D10,FENDER STEEL KING, [This message was edited by Gordon Borland on 25 February 2006 at 06:59 PM.]

Jennings Ward · Post by **Jennings Ward** » 25 Feb 2006 8:04 pm

STEVE HAS MADE A VERY IMPORTANT POINT.. MAYBE THE MOST IMPORTANT ACROSS THE BOARD, EVERYTHING CONSIDERED................I AM A HAS BIN WOULD BE, OR A WOULD BE HAS BIN, ECT...
IT IS GREAT FUN TO STRIVE FOR PERFECTION..
ESPECIALLY WHEN THE MOUNTAIN KEEPS GETTING HIGHER AND SLIPPERY....YOU ALL UNDERSTAND...
STEVE GOOD LICKS AND LOVE THAT FIDDLE.....
JENNINGS,,, U PK;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

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EMMONS D10 10-10 profex 2 deltafex ne1000 pv1000, pv 31 bd eq, +

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 26 Feb 2006 3:33 am

Someone who makes a judgement about who is a real "musician" based only on the particular skill sets they are good at might be refered to as a horses ass in some circles.

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Bob
upcoming gigs
My Website

[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 26 February 2006 at 03:36 AM.]

Don J. Dixon · Post by **Don J. Dixon** » 26 Feb 2006 4:53 am

Sounds like I was not the only one offended.I can only guess why someone so talented and successful would feel compelled to put others down. Whether you know college level music theory, can play steel at lightning speed with perfect tone and pitch, or you are a 5-year old banging on a pot with a wooden spoon; you are a musician if you can find the music in your soul and make it come out your instument of choice.
Don

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GFI Ultra D-10, Airline 6-string lap steel
steelsanta@aol.com
steelsanta@aol.com

James Cann · Post by **James Cann** » 26 Feb 2006 8:38 am

Someone who makes a judgement about who is a real "musician" based only on the particular skill sets they are good at might be refered to as a horses ass in some circles.

Good point, indeed, and I don't know how many times I've seen or heard this snobbery. Interestingly, it speaks to the subjectivity of music, so it will probably always occur, leaving us to take comfort in that we never seem to hear or suffer it from the real pros.[This message was edited by James Cann on 26 February 2006 at 03:33 PM.]

Adrienne Clasky · Post by **Adrienne Clasky** » 26 Feb 2006 9:27 am

As it happens, I am THE BEST pedal player in Miami. Yeah, okay, I'm the only pedal player in Miami--but that does not lessen my achievment! (Perhaps a tad)

Still, I have heard two distinct groups in other musicians. . .wait, sorry, three. Three distinct groups:

Genius with tone.
Genius with technique (playing the notes)
Genius in vision.

The last, it seems to me, creates the true musician, though the first is impossible to think your way to and the second merely takes practice.

Those are my humble opinions as the greatest pedal player in Miami. LOL.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 26 Feb 2006 10:29 am

I think that anyone who can play with other people is a musician.

Different bands/ensembles communicate on different levels. Some people might not cut it in a classical chamber group or a chart-reading recording session, but that doesn't mean that they aren't "musicians". To my way of thinking, if you can play with people who have abilities similar to yours, you are a musician.

Imagine for a moment a guy strumming a guitar and singing. You sit down at the steel and play along. You both learn the changes of the tune, you change together, you play together. That is music. The participants are musicians. It's really that simple.

Any steel player who is hesitant to call himself a musician should pause and reflect. Maybe if you are a rank beginner, you might not fit the definition. But if you can just play along to a familiar song, I would say that you ARE a musician.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b2005.gif" width="78 height="78">Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
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