Emmons Liability ?????

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 3 Oct 2001 5:27 am

I just recently sold one of our funeral homes so I feel that I am versed enough in the laws and legal aspects of business transactions...In a smooth, unified sale or transfer of ownership, the seller usually makes concessions or compensations for unfinished work that is still due to customers.

...ummmm, Mike, what unfinished work did you leave behind when you sold the business?...I'm almost afraid to ask what concessions were made...

Mike Cass · Post by **Mike Cass** » 3 Oct 2001 6:42 am

I said Iwouldnt post on here anymore, but I refuse to allow someone to misrepresent my former statements & twist them to their favor, figuring I wasnt here anymore to rebutt them.I said I might lurk & indeed that is the case !!!! also this thread was sent to me by a friend of mine......
Harry Hess....CHEAP SHOT !!!!
your post is indicative of the kind that drove me from this forum. You are a sniper!!! & You speak of that which you do not understand!!! You have appointed yourself "Defender of the Masses" , I guess. I dont see a big red "S" on your chest... I do see red Though!!!
I sent you an email just a minute ago & believe me son...I meant every word!!!! You twisted my statements & that is nothin but just plain sleazy!!!
Ron jr has said that if he finds AFTER THE LEGAL SMOKE CLEARS that he has incurred some culpability in this situation he WILL make it right.... no bull...no whining. He even suggested that should he not be found liable, that he might work to affect a happy outcome. Ron Preston has given you fellows an insiders view of the workings as he saw them when Jim Aycoth was the owner of the business. He also vouched, as I do, for Ron jr's character. MAN!!!! what more do you guys want???? .... to whine & stick yer noses wher they dont belong I guess!!! This subject has been beaten to death,& still,It goes on....unbelievable!!!!
You fellows are bordering on libel, slander & conspiracy to commit mayhem..... I suggest that bOb close this topic, as did Jim Cohen.
It is accomplising absolutely nothing!!! Get a life guys... or in lieu of that... drop the mouse & put on yer picks, get yer bar & play that thing across the room... you know, the hunk of wood & steel collecting dust in the corner

.
Now I am REALLY outta here!!!!
....after I edit my spelling

[This message was edited by Mike Cass on 03 October 2001 at 08:03 AM.]

Mike Weirauch · Post by **Mike Weirauch** » 3 Oct 2001 7:41 am

what unfinished work did you leave behind

Two funerals were arranged after the closing date, which had been set and postponed twice because of the same situation. The new owners paid me for what I had done up to the time of closing and they conducted the services keeping the rest of the money. No, I left nothing lying around undone.

Harry, I haven't seen any mud slinging or any sarcastic jabs in this thread. My post certainly is not slanted to anyone involved and was merely posted to provide an overview of business in general to maybe help Billy find the right direction to pursue this issue. I was not being cold hearted by posting about the changes and responsibilities of buyer and seller in a business transaction, I was just being truthful. We all know that sometimes morality and legality don't run concurrent with each other. Billy is not locked out of this situation but with one door closed in his face, he has to find another to open and that is what I was trying to show. As for the stories that was told to Billy about when his guitar was to be shipped and how beautiful it was, those were the same things told to me 3 1/2 years ago when I ordered my LeGrande III and they were told to me by the former owner. I received it finally after 15 weeks and I paid for it all up front in the beginning because, like Billy, I am honest and I trusted the name and the integrity of the company. Billy, you will be triumphant. Mrs. Jenkins, by saying that I was not taking sides in the above post was directed between the buyer and the seller, not between Billy and the company and I certainly did not indicate that ANY businessman should or would keep Billy's money undeservingly and will help to get Billy's guitar to him but locking horns with both buyer and seller is not the right way to get the problem solved.

Bob Carlson · Post by **Bob Carlson** » 3 Oct 2001 8:08 am

EMMONS INC.
That makes the company a corperation. If you start a bussiness you better do It. Just In case things don't work out and you loose your hinney, and end up with a bunch of debts, nobody can touch your home or anything else you own, or money you have In the bank. Only the assets of the corperation.

But If that person took money from people kmowing he was going to file for B R, then I would think you could have some recourse In the Courts. Small Claims Court might be a good place to start. It only costs around five dollars to file.

Again, I feel your pain way out here In Arizona.

Bob Carlson.

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 3 Oct 2001 8:39 am

How could a pending order, or contract, not completed, NOT be the responsibility of the buyer. If there was a sell price of the business, any deposits the former owner received would be deducted from that price, therefore transfering the deposit to the new owner to complete the order. Sounds like the order was filled, and the guitar was sold, and money was pocketed. That transaction was not privey to the buyer of the business.

Steve Stallings · Post by **Steve Stallings** » 3 Oct 2001 11:04 am

This is a very interesting thread, which I have found enlightening if nothing else. I applaud those who have the courage to speak their convictions. That is what makes America great and free. Contrary to Mike Cass's perception, (whom I respect a great deal), I really see no inflammatory, libelous, slanderous or nefarious intent in the threads. I see a group of people concerned for the welfare of a fellow steeler, who is perhaps less fortunate than some. There is nothing inherently wrong with discussing this issue in this forum. I believe this is anyone's business, whom has any intention of dealing with Emmons Inc. or the aforementioned Mr. Aycoth. According to the most recent published figures, that would include about 21% of the forum.

Look, I don't know who is right or wrong. I don't know who owes who. I do know that the Emmons Company is an icon of the industry, with a storied tradition. I have the utmost respect for the Lashley family and wish them only the best. I also know that one of my fellow steelers, a kindred spirit, whom is financially disadvantaged, has been wronged.
This can't be wished away by all the good intentions in the world. I, like many of my fellow forumites, will watch this issue closely and pray that both a speedy and fair resolution for all parties will be found.

In the interim, I find nothing wrong with open, frank discussion of this issue. May God be with all of you who are involved.

------------------
Steve Stallings
Bremond, Texas
[This message was edited by Steve Stallings on 03 October 2001 at 12:07 PM.]

Post by **Joey Ace** » 3 Oct 2001 11:28 am

Harry,
IMO, you are doing a good thing by posting this. I see no distortions.

To ignore this issue would be like walking away from a car wreck.

Mrs. J, Thanks for the responses. You are in my prayers.

I hope that this all works out, just as I hoped SGW would survive. Everyone agreed that Russ was a great guy also. The silence from the Emmons company is deafening.

-j0e-

Michael Holland · Post by **Michael Holland** » 3 Oct 2001 11:42 am

The silence from the Emmons company is deafening.

I have e-mailed Mr. Lashley to inform him that some ignorant and uninformed Forumites are raking through the mud the venerable name of Emmons Steel Guitars and have urged him to register on the Forum and reply. A link to this thread was included.

------------------

Emmons Push Pull S10 | Peavey Session 400 | '52 Fender Lap Steel | Goodrich L120 & Matchbox

Steve Stallings · Post by **Steve Stallings** » 3 Oct 2001 12:20 pm

M. Holland...???

Did you actually read these posts? Where is the Emmons name being sullied? It looks to me as if virtually everyone posting is going to great pains to do just the opposite. Far from being ignorant or uniformed, I see a discussion which is intelligent and certainly is factual based. I just don't get where you are coming from. The only anger and yelling going on seems to be the folks who want to stifle any discussion of the issue. This is not an issue of who likes Ron Lashley or who doesn't. It is not about who likes or dislikes Emmons guitars. It is not about that at all. It is about a friend of ours who has been wronged. It is asking questions about that exact issue. Nothing else sir. What would you do if you were the person out a guitar? Ignore it? As far as I'm concerned, the injured party has shown tremendous restraint on the forum. He specifically did not attack Mr. Lashley, and in fact laid the blame at the feet of Mr. Aycoth. Again, where has any attempt been made to tarnish the Emmons name? I don't see it and I'm pretty biased towards Emmons.

Steve Stallings
Damn Proud Owner of Two Emmons Guitars.

Michael Holland · Post by **Michael Holland** » 3 Oct 2001 12:31 pm

Boycott anyone?

This is a legal matter about which I know nothing and you know nothing. But that hasn't stopped some from rumor mongering.

------------------

Emmons Push Pull S10 | Peavey Session 400 | '52 Fender Lap Steel | Goodrich L120 & Matchbox

Rick Garrett · Post by **Rick Garrett** » 3 Oct 2001 12:48 pm

Hey man I aint rumor mongoring. I just plain feel sorry for the guy who paid for something he didnt get. hard earned money is just that. Besides I think this forum is THE PERFECT place for open discussion of this kind and content. Slander is defined by saying something that isnt true in order to harm their reputation or business. I see nothing slanderous in discussing an issue that could effect anyone of us who happened to order an Emmons guitar during ownership transition. Just my opinion and after all thats what the forum is for. God Bless the USA!

Rick

Danny Bates · Post by **Danny Bates** » 3 Oct 2001 2:07 pm

I think we should each kick in some money and buy a used Emmons. We can let him use it until the issue is over.

We can then loan the guitar to another forum member who may be "in between guitars". It would only take about 50 members to kick in $40 each.

That would give us $2,000 to purchase a used Emmons. Anybody like this idea? Sound like fun?[This message was edited by Danny Bates on 03 October 2001 at 03:08 PM.]

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 3 Oct 2001 3:33 pm

Just last Christmas, I went through a similar situation, although not with a steel guitar. I have an 8 year old daughter that wanted a Barbie computer that we saw in a kids magazine. Since she was hogging my computer, we decided to spend the $900 to get it for her for Christmas. The company even had the endorsement from Mattel to use the Barbie name. We felt safe, I mean if a company like Mattel would endorse them, they had to be OK. WRONG!!! About 2 weeks before Christmas, we get a letter that the company has filed for bankruptcy and no orders would be filled and no refunds were likely given the fact that the company's vendors had first crack at any assets of the company and the customer was basically screwed. This company was apparently in the process of filing bankruptcy for a while and still ran the ad. They did this knowing that the money they collected could go into their pocket and not be touched.

BUT!! The moral of this story is, that I paid with a credit card. I contacted the credit card company. They credited my account and said that they would have a recourse with the bank that the company used as a "vendor". I urge people to use a credit card if at all possible to order the guitar. This way you have a little hope that you won't get screwed. If the company doesn't take credit cards, they should. Even if they have to tack on the few percent credit card fee to the guitar.

I really hope that everything will work out for Billy and do believe that Emmons will do what they can to make it right.

Bob Carlson · Post by **Bob Carlson** » 3 Oct 2001 3:58 pm

Buck and Tom just did Togather Again on the radio. I gotta shut this thing off and go play Togather Again on my Emmons.

Bob Carlson.

slick · Post by **slick** » 3 Oct 2001 4:16 pm

Michael,
Maybe Mr.Lashley should talk to Billy Jenkins,not the forum.Where is all the mud???
are we reading the same post???

Wayne

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 3 Oct 2001 4:38 pm

HH wrote:

One has to wonder though, how could they [the Emmons company] hope to achieve a private resolution while applying "Caller Blocking" to Billy Jenkins phone number?

What is the source of this information, Harry?

Billy Knowles · Post by **Billy Knowles** » 3 Oct 2001 4:42 pm

Fellows
I have known Ron, Sr. and Ron, Jr. for over 30 years and have never found them to be anything but honest. Emmons is the standard of the industry and has been for years. Lets give Ron, Jr. a chance to get his business together and run a successful company as it has been in the past. I live about 2 hours from the company and have visited there 100's of times and have always found Ron, Jr. to the same person every time, honest and always willing to help. I have personally owned 22 new Emmons Guitars and had never had a problem with the guitars or the company.
Lets give Ron, Jr. a chance.
Thanks
Billy

Graham · Post by **Graham** » 3 Oct 2001 4:53 pm

Bobby Boggs:
I can't say whether paying in full is the norm these days, but, I know it isn't with the Fulawka Company. My best friend and I each ordered a new S-10 from Ed just before Christmas last year. No down payment required and when my friends steel was done, we drove up to pick it up at Ed's place. He was told by Ed to take it home and try it out for a bit and if he didn't like it, bring it back, if he did, send the money. (He sent the money!) Mine was not going to be ready for another month or so as it is lefthanded and Ed had to make all the parts as such. When I picked mine up in June, I paid Ed the full amount for it then. I knew I would like it, as I already have one of his steels. To my knowledge, no money has exchanged hands for the steel he is currently building for Ricky Davis either and I know of one shipped to Europe with no down payment.
In regards the original topic of this post, I think the Emmons Company will do the right thing. The Lashley name is an honored one in our world!

------------------
Rebel™
ICQ 614585

http://users.interlinks.net/rebel/steel/steel.html

Jeff Coffell · Post by **Jeff Coffell** » 3 Oct 2001 5:14 pm

I'LL LOAN HIM MY EMMONS. I SMELL FISH IN THIS ONE.

PLUMB COUNTRY

ebb · Post by **ebb** » 3 Oct 2001 5:24 pm

ed fulwaka made me a custom pickup which he brought to st. louis and wouldn't let me pay for until i was sure i was happy and didn't want to send it back. i payed for it on the spot as i knew even if i didn't like it(not possible)i want to support people like this.

Mike Cass · Post by **Mike Cass** » 3 Oct 2001 11:40 pm

Folks, what you're missing here is that Ron jr. was an EMPLOYEE, not a partner or officer of the Emmons Guitar Co Inc. When Mr Aycoth did whatever he did(we still dont have the answers to that one, yet),
Ron jr. somehow acquired the remains. As normally goes, if the previous owner removes any inventory when he vacates the premises, he is also assuming liabilty for the debts of said endeavor, that way the new owner is not handicapped by the considerable expense of starting a new company & being saddled with the debts of the former. Im positive this is the case here. One more time, the Emmons Guitar Co. Inc. no longer exists.The new company, new owner: Emmons Guitars by Lashley, Ronald Lashley jr.owner, President.
btw, Ron & Billy did talk on the phone soon after Mr Aycoths exit., & Ron told him that he would do everything in his power to satisfy Billy. He asked two things in return:
1. that Billy not make a post about this due to the overwhelming volume of calls & emails it would foster, all of which would keep Ron on the phone instead of getting his ducks in a row & getting things up & running, as has happened, sadly.
2. he said that tho he was not responsible he would do everything in his power to help if the first condition was met & things not degeneratw into a "soap opera" (& Im pararhrasing here) .
Well,a post went up, not by Billy btw....& still Ron Claims he will help Mr Jenkins to get satisfaction.
Now.....those are the facts.
Ron does not seem to be culpable & I
suggest to anyone having a problem that occured while Mr Aycoth owned the business to contact Mr Aycoth.
Beyond that......its out of our hands.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 4 Oct 2001 2:33 am

There is another thread about a "memory lapse" problem I had with a vendor. After the "public" airing the vendor decided to make things right and clear the issue. It was too bad that it took the public airing but it did.

I hope this public airing will allow the Emmons Guitar Company (or whatever the current company name is now) to see the light and do what is necessary to clear the product and company name. It only takes one public incident to cause long range harm to a company.

Let's face it, at one time Emmons was "the act in town" but it isn't anymore. Market share has already erroded.

B.Jenkins · Post by **B.Jenkins** » 4 Oct 2001 3:52 am

I want to publically apologize to everyone about inferring Emmons had blocked my phone. After learning on Friday that there would be no guitar nor money, until all was settled with Ron and the former owner and then he still may not be liable, I attempted to call several times over the weekend to further discuss the matter. When I received a message the number was not accessible, I assumed he did not want to discuss it any further. I did reach them on dialpad, however, and left a message for him to call. I didn't know anything was amiss with the telephone as I never have problems with the phone, until I tried to call my daughter in SC and got the same message. My carrier had erroneously put a block on some long distance states, and profoundly apologized to me. I promptly ran back to MaBell so I can call anytime, anywhere.

I do apologize, though, as I don't want to make a bad situation any worse, nor imply the company is involved in something underhanded. The only fault I have is they have not filled my prepaid order.

Billy

Fred Jack · Post by **Fred Jack** » 4 Oct 2001 7:47 am

Billy...I know the frustrations that Ma Bell can cause. A couple of years ago I was in Houston and needed to phone home.I stopped at a pay phone and placed my call.I got a message that no out of area calls were being accepted on my home #.I knew that wasn't right so I went to another pay phone and made another attempt.Same thing. Now I am not a patient man but what can you say to a computer? I called the operator and explained my problem so she placed the call for me.I never did get through and by the time I got back home I was livid!!It took me a while to find the culprit but it didn't take them long to correct it!They had mistakenly placed the block on when I purchased a package with call ID , waitng and forwarding. These situations do happen very innocently. That does not stop them from being very annoying! About your steel,I don't know Ron jr but I'd wager that you get a new Emmons. You are in the unfortunate position of having to wait.If you were to sue that will take several months and if you work it out between the parties involved probably be a lot quicker. I've never dealt with Emmons but I think you'll get your guitar. Let us know when you do. Regards,fred

bob drawbaugh · Post by **bob drawbaugh** » 4 Oct 2001 8:10 am

Mr. Jenkins a word of advice from someone who has been their. DO NOT BUY THIS CRAP WAIT UNTIL THE SMOKE CLEARS AND SOMEONE WILL DO THE RIGHT THING! It probably want happen. You need a lawyer today and action needs to be filed on your behalf against the Emmons Guitar company, regardless of who the owner is, or was. Let the judge sort out who the quilty party is. You need to protect yourself, and your investment. If the Emmons company files chapter 13 and you have no legel action pending, you are just out of luck. But if there is a legel action pending you may get some of your money back. No one on this fourm can tell you what the right thing to do is for you. You will have to do that. But, a word to the wise, you need to protect Bill Jenkins, because no one else will. This is not to be a slam on anyone envolved it is only to give Mr. Jenkins some input from someone that is not emotionly envolved with the Emmons company or the owners, past or present.