Emmons Liability ?????

Harry Hess · Post by **Harry Hess** » 2 Oct 2001 12:26 am

Re: Billy Jenkins paid in full, long over due guitar.

In the other thread, now closed, Mike Cass replied to my concern for the plight of Billy Jenkins in the following quotations:

"Harry, Ron jr's words about that to myself & the customer in question were:"If we find that I am liable for your order, I will see to it that you get the guitar you ordered."

Billy Jenkins has his check which was cashed by the Emmons Company. The funds are no longer in his account.

How can anybody say that they don't owe him the guitar or his money back?

Have we reached the sad day where the Emmons Company is reduced to hiding behind legal manuvers which will leave a sixty year old man, who is living on a fixed income, holding the proverbial empty bag?

"Ron assured me that if he is the responsible party when the smoke clears, or in the event that he is found not responsible but in a position to help, he would welcome the opprotunity to continue to keep the trademark name in good standing in the industry......cant be any fairer than that."

What would be fair would be that the owners take the position that this fellow will receive his guitar..... period. I would hope that they realize that THIS IS their oppurtunity to "keep the trademark name in good standing in the industry".

If somebody raided the Emmons coffers and made off with the funds, that really stinks. I don't know what happened to the Emmons Company and shouldn't speculate. But whatever happened, it must have been bad and unfortunately the owners may have to eat it on this one in order to maintain their reputation. Honest and fair businessmen would understand that and grit their teeth and get it behind them. If they meet their obligations no matter what their hardship, they will earn a great deal of respect. If they take the easy way out and hide behind legalities, they will not.

Statements to the effect that "if he is the responsible party when the smoke clears" sound to reasonable people like somebody is blowing smoke though.

"That being said,I would think that from here on out, unless Ron, Jim or their lawyers post on here,or communicate with the PSG community in some way, we should drop this futile excercise in second guessing, needles speculation & innuendo."

I have not read every word of every post in that thread, however in my post I see nothing that I believe can be refered to as "second guessing, needles speculation & innuendo", so I'll assume that comment is aimed elsewhere. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry.

Sadly, it does happen every day that somebody pays for a product and the company they've dealt with goes through some kind of reshuffling and the customer is told that they are just plain out of luck....... sorry.

But is the Emmons company gonna stoop to that level?

I don't wish to drag the Emmons Comany or Ron Lashley, Jr. through the mud. Nor do I want to kick them when they're down. And I can understand how they don't want any posts or threads regarding this matter. One has to wonder though, how could they hope to achieve a private resolution while applying "Caller Blocking" to Billy Jenkins phone number?

I'm aware that this is really not my business. Perhaps I should be like most people and keep my mouth shut and not make waves or possibly enemies and just say "Gee that's too bad, glad it's not me". But I've never been able to stand by and watch a little guy, or an older gentleman in this case, take a beating.

This fellow suffered a heart attack last year. He can't supplement his fixed income by playing gigs because he has no guitar to play them with. He has no guitar because he sold his and gave the money to the Emmons Company for a new guitar. His heart medications are expensive and he needs to gig to make ends meet.

He is suffering. If nobody will stand up for him because they are afraid of what will be said of them by the Emmons Company and their friends and associates, then what does that say of us?

Are we satisfied with this modern society where it seems that nobody cares about anybody but themselves?

Sometimes you gotta stand up to the big boys and go to bat for your brother, even if he is a stranger. You may walk away with a black eye, but you'll sleep better.

Again, I have no ill will toward Ron Lashley, Jr or the Emmons Company. To the contrary, I think it'd be a sad day for the steel guitar world if they ever closed their doors. I own two Emmons guitars and I love them very much. I really wanna see the Emmons Company thrive. It'd be a real drag if they ever shut down.

But even if they are presently experiencing difficulties, they are still an established company with assets and resourses. To the contrary, Billy Jenkins is a sixty year old country boy in poor health trying to survive.

Often it seems like some business's feel that seniors don't have enough energy to fight for their rights and will soon fold up and go away. I'm certainly not suggesting that the Emmons company operates that way, but I know I've seen seniors treated that way by other companies in other situations.

I just don't wanna see Billy Jenkins fall through the cracks.

I really hope my post is not taken as an attack on anybody or trouble making. I just feel really bad for Billy Jenkins. Somebody's gotta stand up for him. There's gotta be a way that this guy can be treated fairly.

Is there anybody who can help him out of his difficulty?

Regards,
HH [This message was edited by Harry Hess on 02 October 2001 at 04:04 AM.]

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 2 Oct 2001 2:19 am

It would seem to me it would be less expensive to honor the sale than to potentially face legal action. The legal costs (lawyer, etc) would be more than it costs to build a steel.

If the new (old) owner doesn't want any "clouds" hanging over his business he will take care of his customers. Beside, whatever "loss" is incurred can be claimed on income tax.

Rick Garrett · Post by **Rick Garrett** » 2 Oct 2001 2:32 am

I think its a real shame and Billy Jenkins shouldnt be caught in the middle of bad business practices. When I first read about this I was under the impression that Ron Jr. or somebody from the Emmons guitar company, would in fact be taking care of this gents guitar. Doesnt sound that way now what with them call blocking his calls. Boycott anyone?

Rick

Danny Hullihen · Post by **Danny Hullihen** » 2 Oct 2001 3:24 am

Harry, that is indeed a very sad story to hear. However, my gut feeling is that the Emmons Guitar Co. will make this right with Billy, or at least I certainly hope they will.)

In the meantime though, I would be willing to send funds to Billy to help him with purchasing his heart medication. Perhaps others might be willing to do the same here?

In any case, just an offer to help if needed.

Harry Hess · Post by **Harry Hess** » 2 Oct 2001 3:30 am

Rick,

I don't think it's appropriate to call for a boycott at this time. I'll bet Ron Lashley, Jr is presently under a lot of stress himself. I'll also bet that with the oppurtunity to sleep on it, he'll do the right thing.

What we should express is our desire to see both parties get through their mutual difficult times. Emmons is a great company, a major part of the steel guitar tradition.

But, I guess they're still businessmen and like all businessmen, occasionally need to be reminded to over ride the number crunchers and maintain the humane element in their company. I'm sure they will do the right thing.

But I sure hope we can soon see Billy Jenkins out there gigging and keeping his head above water financially.

But it is also of utmost importance that he not be put through any more stress.

He's already suffered a recent heart attack. He's sixty years old and probably worked hard all his life. I'd like to know that he is out there gigging and enjoying the hell out of a beautiful new Emmons and able to pay for those expensive heart medications. Not sweating about if and when will he ever receive the guitar he paid for in good faith.

Regards,
HH

Harry Hess · Post by **Harry Hess** » 2 Oct 2001 3:37 am

Danny,

That's a great idea. We could get the guy's and gal's here on the Forum to help out with the cost of his meds.

EVERYBODY PLEASE..... LET'S KEEP THIS THREAD POSITIVE.

ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO BASH THE EMMONS COMPANY, PLEASE STAY OUT OF THIS THREAD.

But if we show our support for Billy Jenkins in a positive way, the Good Lord may just put things right here.

Regards,
HH

Steve Stallings · Post by **Steve Stallings** » 2 Oct 2001 4:20 am

regarding this mans medication:

If you are truly needy, talk with your physician. There are multiple programs run by drug companies which provide free medication to folks with limited resources. Your doctor can also provide you with free sample medication easily. If he can't do these things, I would suggest you try a second doctor. I practice medicine in the second poorest county in Texas. The vast majority of my patients are indigent. We do the above every day of the week. It can be done. God bless

------------------
Steve Stallings
Bremond, Texas

Fred Murphy · Post by **Fred Murphy** » 2 Oct 2001 6:05 am

I can't believe that the Aycouths will do the man this way. I may have misjudged them, but I don't think so. They have always dealt fairly and honestly with me. They even sent me parts I ordered without paying for them first, not many companys will do that. I hope that this is just a misunderstanding between them and Ron, and I believe either one will do the right thing. If they don't, this will be the last Emmons guitar I will buy.

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 2 Oct 2001 7:45 am

This fellow suffered a heart attack last year. He can't supplement his fixed income by playing gigs because he has no guitar to play them with. He has no guitar because he sold his and gave the money to the Emmons Company for a new guitar. His heart medications are expensive and he needs to gig to make ends meet.

I just feel really bad for Billy Jenkins. Somebody's gotta stand up for him. There's gotta be a way that this guy can be treated fairly.

That's a great idea. We could get the guy's and gal's here on the Forum to help out

I own two Emmons guitars

....hmmmmm.....

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 2 Oct 2001 8:14 am

As long as we are coming up with uninformed opinions and telling other people what to do I think it is a great idea that Harry Hess should donate one of his Emmons steels to Billy.

Bob

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 2 Oct 2001 8:25 am

...Bob, I was hinting that maybe he could just loan one to him until the other matter is resolved...

Bob Carlson · Post by **Bob Carlson** » 2 Oct 2001 8:49 am

Bob,
If Ron would have informed us of what Is going on, we wouldn't have any uninformed opinions!

And If I really wanted to stir things up, I'd ask Ron how he happens to be the owner of that Trademark.

Bob Carlson.

Jim Eaton · Post by **Jim Eaton** » 2 Oct 2001 9:58 am

Lets hope that Ron Jr. will have the same kind of CLASS that Reece showed to all of his customers and the psg world in general as he sorted out the ending of the MSA Co.
JE:-)>

Harry Hess · Post by **Harry Hess** » 2 Oct 2001 12:54 pm

Bob Hoffnar,

So it's your opinion that since I've taken an interest in Billy Jenkins plight and have felt compelled to advocate for him, that I should be the one to give him one of my guitars in order to bail out the Emmons Company?

Do I detect a hint of suggestion that I'm somehow the villian here after all?

I hate it when you have to try to read between the lines to figure out what a guy really wants to say. And BTW Bob, who exactly do you feel is posting uninformed opinions here?

Are you suggesting that Billy Jenkins is lieing or being less than totally forthcoming in his claim?

Pat,

You've suggested that I loan him one of my Emmons. Well, I had given that some consideration but until I settle my Father's estate and back taxes I'd be afraid to let anything go anywhere. Because my Emmons guitars are substantial assets of mine, and I'm hoping like hell that I won't have to sell either of them to settle any debts.

How about some of the guy's here on the Forum who own 15 to 20 PSGuitars? Maybe one of those fellows could see their way to loan him one that they are not currently using.

Even better yet, maybe the Emmons Company would have a trade in sitting around that THEY could loan him till they deliver his "paid in full" order.

Steve,

Your suggestion is of a positive nature. I hope Billy Jenkins reads this and checks that option out. I have taken advantage of free samples from my MD's in the past.

Only drawback is that they usually can only give you a few days worth and can't garruntee when they can get more from the reps, so it really doesn't provide one with any sense of long, or even medium term confidence that they are OK for Meds.

It would sure seem to be a shame to suggest that the fellow may have to resort to some form of welfare.

Kinda strange that a guy would have to take such things into consideration while making the decision to buy a PSG, huh?

I guess that I was born too early. I sometimes have difficulties making sense of modern morals/logic, etc.

I do have an idea of how Billy Jenkins could be helped, but I think it's a tad premature to conclude at this time that the Emmons Guitar Co. will not, in a timely fashion, full fill their original promise to Billy Jenkins when they accepted his money.

Regards,
HH

[This message was edited by Harry Hess on 02 October 2001 at 02:39 PM.]

slick · Post by **slick** » 2 Oct 2001 3:39 pm

If he in fact paid for a guitar,they should
send him his guitar or refund his money.Its as simple as that,not at all complicated.Some states have free legal aid services to people who cant afford it.Maybe he should check that out.Please look at the first word in this reply.

Wayne

bob drawbaugh · Post by **bob drawbaugh** » 2 Oct 2001 4:29 pm

Slick, You are right. It doesn't matter who owns the company now. If the man paid for A guitar one should be on its way, or a refund.

Mike Weirauch · Post by **Mike Weirauch** » 2 Oct 2001 4:55 pm

I said I would not get involved in this thread but it seems as though it might be getting heated up so maybe I can shed some light on the problem from a business standpoint.

1. No one, including myself, knows the nature of the change in ownership of the Emmons Company therefore solutions and accusations are both meaningless. As a rule, accounts payable and accounts receivable usually always stay with the seller and are not transfered to the buyer. This would place the responsibility on the shoulders of the former owner if this was the case but we don't know.
2. The money used to pay for the guitar was paid to the former owner, not the present owner. Again, depending upon the nature and circumstances surrounding the change in ownership this would place the responsibility upon the shoulders of the former owner. In a smooth, unified sale or transfer of ownership, the seller usually makes concessions or compensations for unfinished work that is still due to customers and again we don't know.
3. No one is hiding behind legal maneuvers nor is anyone apparently saying that Billy isn't owed a guitar that has been paid for. What IS being said is that it has been one week since this change of ownership took place and I don't think that the new owners have had time to wade through all of what they received. I don't think this was the usual smooth transaction that accompanies most changes of ownerships but again, I DON'T KNOW.
4. Bottom line is, Jim Aycoth was the owner of Emmons Guitar Co. and was paid the money for the guitar in question and unless some concession was made prior to the change of ownership, he is the responsible party BUT AGAIN, we don't know!
5. Now, if it involved a corporation, which it did, there are many legal problems to sort out and I'm sure this and other simular situations are part of those problems being sorted so maybe patience would be of virtue at this time, this I DO know.

I feel for Billy. This is a rotten thing to happen to anyone, especially Billy. No one is deserving of this but fingers shouldn't be pointed at those who are not responsible for what happened until proof is presented to state otherwise. I have this strange feeling that this is going to play out like the ending of a fairy tale, "......and they all lived happily ever after" but again, I don't know!

I am not taking sides in this issue, merely trying to point out how business works. I just recently sold one of our funeral homes so I feel that I am versed enough in the laws and legal aspects of business transactions to post my opinion and this I DO know! Patience people, patience!

Gary Dunn · Post by **Gary Dunn** » 2 Oct 2001 6:03 pm

Well Folks,

I live about 45 min. from Emmons Guitar Company and paid them a visit today. To shed some light here, Mike hit nail on the head how business transactions take place and this is only one of the issues the Ron Jr. is dealing with since taking over. Since Billy, placed his order with and paid Jim Aycoth for a guitar, then Jim is legally bound to send him one. But since there is a new owner of the Emmons Guitar Company prior to this completed transaction, then Jim has to provide the recieved monies form any pending transaction to Emmons new owner to complete any pending contracts. Lets all hope the the former owner will step up to the plate and make the transaction as smooth as possible for all parties involved.

B.Jenkins · Post by **B.Jenkins** » 2 Oct 2001 7:52 pm

Harry, and all who answered his thread. This is Billy's wife, and I want to thank you for standing up for Billy in his very disappointing dilema. We are handling his medications, not to worry, I do have insurance which pays a portion, thank God. Your thoughts were appreciated, but no action is necessary. I, not being a steel player, was sort of amused with all of the replies, I can see who still believes in being old fashioned honest. Yes, we believe in God, and think the thing will work out. However, I have been told that God helps those who help themselves, and although I will be patient, I am NOT going to standby and let a "business man" cheat my "dinner bucket-packing all his life" husband, be cheated out of his hard earned money, if I have to go the congressman of the state in which the business operates. As far as patience, I think we have been very patient, as Bill was told on several occasions that his guitar was beautiful, it would be shipped in 2 weeks, then there was the Steel Guitar Show which held it up. Now I ask, if that guitar was so ready to be shipped, and was so beautiful, why can't Ron see it? He read Bill his order, so the paperwork is there, and he said it was never started. I sure understand when businesses have problems, but truly that is not my problem. We sent money, and we have no product. We have been patient since June 15th, and I think that is very, very patient.

Harry, you sounded wonderful. Bill is lucky to have a friend like you. As far as making decisions to buy guitars instead of "other necessities", what can I say.....the man loves his steel guitar (and his poodle).

Bill has always had a SG, he sold a Sho~Bud to buy the Emmons, and for the time being, that money is gone. Harry did say one thing I agree with, it will take Bill a long time to save that money again, as he does take care of his family.

God bless us all, and I hope Emmons does the right thing period.

Sharon

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 2 Oct 2001 8:44 pm

I think this might be a really good time to close this thread.

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 2 Oct 2001 9:17 pm

Why close it? Sounds to me like the former owner,not Emmons guitar Co needs a little bashing.One thing that strikes me as strange, is the fact Mr.Jenkins paid the full amount in advance.Is this the norm these days??
I haven't bought a brand new PSG since Ron Sr.was in charge of the Co.But I never paid more than $200 in advance.And mine were always customed ordered.I have to wonder if Mr.Jenkins was asked to pay the full amount in advance?This stinks!

But surely things will work out.BTW I still play Emmons guitars. Best of Luck Mr.Jenkins

Harry Hess · Post by **Harry Hess** » 2 Oct 2001 9:36 pm

Dear Sharon,

Yes this whole steel guitar business does appear at times to be a nasty business. And if you try to stick up for a guy who you fear may be getting the shaft by the accounts he gives of the situation from his end, you may end up with mud slung at you or taking sarcastic jabs from some of the more cold hearted among us.

Oh well, I still believe it's right to try to stick up for each other, no matter what the naysayers say or do. Trick is just to ignore the "downer" types and stick with those who show a little heart for their steelguithar brethren,

Somebody sent an email suggesting that you look into a federal law called "the Bulk Sales Act"

The emailer states:

"if the Emmons company is changing
hands legally, then there is a federal law called the " Bulk Sales Act ". This provides provisions which make the new owners liable for any obligations. I just used this in a small claims suit on my day job and did in fact receive a settlement in full."

Ya'll should check into that Sharon. Maybe it will be of help to you.

I've said my piece for now, I'm gonna sit back, like many others, and see how this story unfolds.

The fair minded steelers who have taken an interest in this case, will exercise a reasonable amount of patience as has been suggested & requested. We will though, be very interested to see how fairly Billy is treated.

If you run into finiancial difficulties due to the drop in income, please don't hesitate to ask for assistance. I don't have bottomless pockets, but can certainly be counted on to offer some assistance.

Danny Hullihen has also very kindly offered to send some funds for assitance as well. So there are some among us who care about your delimma. Please don't be too proud or embarrished to let us know if you need us.

Regards,
HH

RON PRESTON · Post by **RON PRESTON** » 3 Oct 2001 3:34 am

Guys, I hate to say this, But I DO KNOW FOR A FACT that JIM AYCOTH has in the past SOLD Guitars at several steel guitar shows that WAS ALREADY PAID FOR by customes that was READY to be shipped to them. He might not have enough guitars to take to the shows, so he would take guitars that was ready for someone WHO HAS PAID IN FULL! I know of one Dealer here in Louisiana that sent JIm a Certified Check, and this Fellow waited and waited for his guitar.When he called Jim about the guitar, Jim always had some excuse about where and when he would recive his guitar. When I worked there at Emmons, I seen this happen several times, and there are other people who have seen this also, but I won't mention names. Maybe they will say their thoughts about this matter at a later time. If you want me to have this Dealer post, I'm sure he would tell you his FRUSTERATING experince with Jim over the time that the Aycoths' owned the Emmons Co.
And this I have SEEN and WITTNESSED when I was there. BUT, I know Ron Jr. well, and I can say this......HE WILL MAKE IT RIGHT, ONE WAY OR THE OTHER!!!

B.Jenkins · Post by **B.Jenkins** » 3 Oct 2001 3:40 am

Harry,
First of all thanks for your appreciated offers of support. However, we are survivors and we will make it. The amount for the guitar will not break us up. We are not among the wealthy, but we will survive. Its just that Billy can't reorder today and buy a new SG. He will have to wait awhile.

As far as patience, we are not going to bash, nor act hastily. We do have a few things in mind, perhaps some legal questions for the Emmons Company. We have started this form of questioning, but no suits are pending.

I am not concerned about who owns what, his cashiers check was made out to the Emmons Company, not an individual, and I feel that company is responsible no matter who is in charge. I will check into the Bulk Sales Act, just to have more options. I am sure Billy will keep you posted.

I will say, my husband was devestated when he learned his money was gone, and there would be no guitar. I did worry that he would have another heart attack, but he is tough.

What makes me sick, is I am sure the folks in question have more funds than we do, and have the low morals to rip people off. I am wondering what kind of a business it is
and what kind of people runs it. I personally don't think it is big enough to hide behind legalities, but I don't think those in charge are destitute either. It appears business is as usual.

Oh, well, this world is not perfect is it? We will keep you posted.

Sharon

bob drawbaugh · Post by **bob drawbaugh** » 3 Oct 2001 5:02 am

Jim why would you want the post closed? We now have the story from the source. Now The Emmons guitar company can respond if they wish. Is that not what the fournm is all about. So far there has been no mud slinging that I can see only the truth.