What do you Country Guys think of Jazz?

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 4 Jul 2006 4:20 am

well there was a phrase used back in the earlyist days when Vassar came out with those great Country/Jazz Fusion records..

It was termed Cow Jazz as I recall..

I believe I may have heard Buddy refer to this phrase, or maybe it was Doug...

Major Key Jazz...

If your playing Buegrass guess what...

there are so many exceptionally great artists to draw from, whether they be playing a B3, Piano, Sax, Guitar etc...just take the music, put it into the cranal cavity, not sure which lobe area, and then apply to the Steel..

even if it's just one single phrase or movement...the dimension of music that results is a personal treasure.

just do it..
t

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 4 Jul 2006 7:50 am

I reckon it makes me kin'ly nervous..

Mm hhmmm..

EJL

Michael Haselman · Post by **Michael Haselman** » 4 Jul 2006 9:39 am

Jazz is for people (like me) who get bored with 1-3-5 harmony. I've been a jazz fan most of my life, and one thing about itis when you try to get most people to listen to it it's like pulling teeth. I still think my divorce from my first wife had a lot to do with the fact that I'm a jazz fan. One of the posts said how jazz fans seem to be "above" other people. Damn straight. It takes effort and time to learn what you need to learn to appreciate jazz. So, yeah, I feel a little hipper than normal people because I'm in on something they're not. I don't know if any of you have seen the Ken Burns PBS jazz series, but I highly recommend it. About 3 times a year.

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[This message was edited by Michael Haselman on 04 July 2006 at 12:59 PM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 4 Jul 2006 10:01 am

"Cowboy jazz" has a very conservative rhythm section. The drummer sticks to patterns and doesn't join in the improvisation. I think that's why it doesn't get played on jazz radio stations. A lot of steel guitar jazz records follow this example. If steel guitarists played with a real jazz rhythm section instead of their countrified cronies, maybe their music would be considered for airplay.

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David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 4 Jul 2006 11:03 am

What Jim Cohen said hits it one the head.
Jazz is an organaised high level hamonization.
But sometimes for effect the harmonization is droped out or implied.

It is rarely EVER a free for all.
Most jazz players dislike that intensely...
But it is, at it's best,
a sublime interaction between open eared players having a conversation.

I just got back from a jazz show in Bangkok.
The best upright player in town asked if I wanted to sit in.
Hell yes!
We did ; A Night in Tunisia, How High The Moon and Jordu.

A solid drummer and a KILLER small voicing guitarplayer.
Lots of space, and LOTS of drive.

It made my trip up to look for drum cymbals and other parts doubly worth while.

It was open free and swinging too.
Like most good music should be.

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 4 Jul 2006 11:59 am

I grew up watching the Ed Sullivan show and my mom was big on all the musicals that came out so that was my first exposure to music. When I started playing the drums around 13-14 I didn't realize how much of it I had already absorbed. It seemed like overnight I was looking for jazz records to play along with. This all along with playing in a local r/r band, digging the Ventures, Sandy Nelson, Joe Morello, Buddy Rich, and then when I found soul/Motown, funk was natural thing for me to play. I played in a lot of black bands where I was the only white so it was all around me. I wish I had a buck for everytime I carried a B3 or any Hammond organ up the stairs to some after hour black club in the boondocks. I loved every minute and would do it all again. I never thought of myself as any particular type of player, just a player that loved most all of it. I never cared for the darker kinds of r/r bands, Zeppelin, Stones, Black Sabbath. That stuff I wouldn't listen to but give me Yes, Robin Trower, Hendrix, Pink Floyd, Steely Dan, Deep Purple, The Beatles, Lonnie Mack, and I'd make it to all of those shows and still have the records. For rock and pop Steely Dan would be my all time favorite of them all with Pink Floyd a close second. For stricyly jazz it would be the big bands of the 40's, Stan Getz, Cannonball Adderly, George Benson and many others. Funny because now I play mostly country music with some other stuff mixed in, blues, r/r, bluegrass and I'm on a different instrument now after all this time. My last full time gig on the drums was playing the higher end hotel lounges wearing a three piece suit playing jazz and show tunes every night. It was fun for a long time but there is a thing called burnout and I did. I put the drums away, took up the steel guitar and moved to Nashville and completely started at the very bottom learning something completely new and loved every minute of it and still do. Just as of late I'm learning some jazz standards like Girl From Ipanema. Funny it seems I'm just now after some 24 years or so getting back to where I was playing that same music I played then. I'm a jazz fan absolutely but I like anything that grooves.[This message was edited by Frank Parish on 04 July 2006 at 01:08 PM.]

Dr. Hugh Jeffreys · Post by **Dr. Hugh Jeffreys** » 4 Jul 2006 3:50 pm

For Petr Vitous: My band was the first CharlieRichplayed with when he got out of the US NAVY. I hired him because he was a good jazz piano man and good reader. My book was witten "semi skull" style: part written, part ad-lib so that all got a chance at a solo and we all started and ended together. At that point in time, I had to beg Charlie to sing--and then he only did Blues in F with a good racy flavor. Later, of course, he proved entirely versatile. His heart--like mine--was in real jazz, like Kenton, Hermon, Ellington. Also that's where my best arranging/composing talent lies. ---J---

Tim Harr · Post by **Tim Harr** » 6 Jul 2006 8:40 am

I am not saying that this applies to any one person BUT, in my experience I have found most that are over critical of Jazz - and refuse to play it...probably couldn't if they wanted to... on any instrument.

Most of Jazz is so far above most people's heads ..they just don't get it.

Jazz guitarists (the purists) and even Classical (legit) players often times scoff at Country music, Country musicans, and even the venues. I took a friend that is a classical player (major symphonic player) with me to the Grand Old Opry several years ago and he just laughed outloud at Bashful brother Oswald because he was wearing bib overalls at a performance. Oh the thought of not dressing appropriately for a "performance" just threw him back.. He thought the whole show was a joke.

After he heard some of the guys play guitar in town -- he changed his tone and admitted that he couldn't play like that in a million years.

I just laughed quietly to myself and thought - "Yeah, I told you..."

Dr. Hugh Jeffreys · Post by **Dr. Hugh Jeffreys** » 6 Jul 2006 2:18 pm

Tim and others=== Yes it's really sad the way Professional Players dress--almost unbelievable and disgraceful as well. When I was going strong with my band in the Memphis area, we wore tailored dinner jackets + others depending upon where we performed. ---j---

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 6 Jul 2006 7:29 pm

My favorite country players are also all jazz players, or at least BIG fans.

On Gt. Jimmy Bryant and Brent Mason immediately come to mind.

On steel, Big E, Doug J., Paul F. spring in instantly.

And ain't no one gonna say their country playing ain't the best either.

Even if they don't have the framework for all their savoir faire in a country tune,
they still have many, many more possibilities
available within in the country tunes framework to use.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 06 July 2006 at 08:31 PM.][This message was edited by David L. Donald on 07 July 2006 at 09:41 AM.]

Kelly Hydorn · Post by **Kelly Hydorn** » 6 Jul 2006 8:53 pm

I had a jazz once, but got tired of it so I sold it. Where is Bob Carlucci when you need him? Jazz is okay I guess, but I'm thinking I still like my country mixed in with a little bit of rockabilly and some west coast country and western if you can remember back that far.

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 7 Jul 2006 6:49 am

Anybody ever noticed that the better country players can play rather well informed jazz,blues and rock but rarely is the reverse true.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 7 Jul 2006 7:39 am

"Anybody ever noticed that the better country players can play rather well informed jazz,blues and rock but rarely is the reverse true."

I have not noticed that. There is not a Jazz musician I can think of that has not done time in an R&B band or rock band and certainly every jazz musican can play the blues with authority.

As far as not playing in a country band, there are many reasons for that, none of which have anything to do with musical ability.

But other than a few notible exceptions, like Hank Garland and Buddy Emmons, I'm less familiar with country players playing jazz. But i'm more than happy to be educated.

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 7 Jul 2006 8:14 am

...could it be __ could it just be, so __ is it just possible, that the derivation of jazz is from those musicians who could stay somewhat in the chord structure, but really couldn't play a tune?

But, I do like a lot of it.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 7 Jul 2006 8:33 am

I'm missing your meaning Rick. Are you saying Jazz musicians can't play a tune? If so, you might want to give John Coltrane's Ballad's CD a try.

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 7 Jul 2006 8:40 am

Lookup the word derivation, Bill.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 7 Jul 2006 8:49 am

The jazz players can play much more
harmonically involved and evolved melodies.

Since they have a more expanded harmonization
to play in and around. It obviously takes more
mental and physical technique to do it.
But most can dial it back to minimalist.

That said, the best ones can make
one note REALLY count over several chords.
And add a second releasing a torrent of pentup tension.
And bring tears to the eyes in the sameway
a great country player can within his genre.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 7 Jul 2006 9:06 am

I know what derivation means Rick. I just couldn't parse your sentence.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 7 Jul 2006 9:21 am

"That said, the best ones can make
one note REALLY count over several chords."

One of the greatest solos I can think of was Theloneous Monk's solo on The Man I Love on the Christmas Eve session he did with Milt Jackson and Miles Davis for prestige back in the 50's. The whole session was classic, but Monk's solo was just a couple of single notes with long spaces of silence. But man did it swing.

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 7 Jul 2006 12:50 pm

Anybody ever noticed that the better country players can play rather well informed jazz,blues and rock but rarely is the reverse true.

I have noticed that the musical snobbery/facism quotient ( "My chosen genre is the ultimate in expression and that other crap is (too easy, too hard, too shallow, too much science, too lowest common denominator, too traditional, not traditional enough, etc.") can be found in ALL styles of music.

Same guy, different clothes.

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[This message was edited by John McGann on 07 July 2006 at 01:58 PM.]

Dr. Hugh Jeffreys · Post by **Dr. Hugh Jeffreys** » 7 Jul 2006 2:06 pm

If I remember correctly, the last time I saw and talked with Ronnie Miller, he said that all of Charlie Pride's band had University degrees in music. That's also true of the ENTIRE group that works for Shoji Tabuchi in Branson. I'm looking forward to visiting Branson this fall--Shoji has extended a personal invitation to us for his back stage activities. ---j---

Larry Strawn · Post by **Larry Strawn** » 7 Jul 2006 2:50 pm

I've never been exposed to Jazz enough to aquire any knowlege of it. I'm not saying I don't like it, just that I don't understand it and haven't aquired a taste for it, how ever I sometimes hear a song that I relate to Jazz and I like the feel, and swing of it so I listen untill my interest fades or wanders elsewhere. I know that' a heck of a way to be, but just telling the truth.

Being a "hack" picker I can relate, and appreciate the skill and knowlege required to play it though.

Larry

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 7 Jul 2006 4:34 pm

What I mean is that if you take one of the better guys around here like Albert Lee for instance. He can play like Eric Clapton but Eric Clapton can't do what he does. Albert can also grab a jazz box and play like Wes Montgomery w/the correct tone,taste,feel and harmonic underpinnings. Brian Setzer is another one. He can grab a Tele and play fine Bakersfield country guitar - he knows all the roots. He can fingerpick the Merle Travis/Chet Atkins songbook and then play fine chord solo jazz guitar - knows all the standards. And then turn around and do his manic rockabilly thing - also real well. On the other hand I've played with several hardcore straight ahead players who wanted to and were really trying to play the most authentic country guitar they could on these particular gigs and it was just from the book of wrong.Wrong tone,wrong ax,wrong rig,wrong feel,wrong modes,etc,etc. I'm not saying it's beyond their ability - it just seems they don't care to listen to it or do it enough to get the fine points together. Just an observation.
-MJ-

Terry Edwards · Post by **Terry Edwards** » 7 Jul 2006 5:00 pm

Playing jazz and being a jazz musician are two different things.

Same for rock, bluegrass, country, etc.

I think it is like learning a language. Learning to speak a language doesn't make you French, Italian, Irish, etc.

That doesn't mean you can't have an appreciation for music genres.

I love listening to some forms of jazz although I can't play them very well. I am facinated with good jazz uprightt bass players!

Terry

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 7 Jul 2006 6:43 pm

I remember Albert Lee saying he could relate to Jimmy Bryant more than Tal Farlow- but I'm not surprised to hear he can play good mainstream jazz.

Some jazz guys presume they can "play anything" on the assumption that if you can play bebop, you can play anything...I've also seen the "wrong tone wrong approach" from a rock guy smugly assuming he could play bluegrass ("how hard could it be, right?"