Tone Bar vs. Bullet-shaped steel on lap steel

[Rick Aiello]

Here’s Baz

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[Nic Neufeld]

Here’s Baz

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Ahh, I stand corrected then. I still like the idea of a tripleneck with the same tuning for just over the top showmanship though!

[Peter Funk]

Best of both worlds for me:



Specialy made by Jan Simon of daddyslide: https://daddyslide.de/home_en/#bullettonebar_en

[Joseph Lazo]

Ken, when I started with lap steel I got a Shubb SP2 because I thought it'd be easier to control. Then I decided to try a bullet bar. For the first few weeks, it felt really odd and it kept slipping out of my hand and falling on the floor. The more I used it, though, the more I liked it. Now the Shubb feels odd to me and I'll be listing it for sale. The bar I like best for lap steel is only 2 3/4" long. I just lucked into that one from a forum member selling it. The compact size makes it easier to handle than bars that are over 3" long. I'd suggest you look for one that's no more than 3" long. I think you'll end up liking it better than the Shubb style bar.

[Keith Aiken]

peter funk, that daddy slide you have is the ticket. i contacted them about making one like that for me. they didn't seem to be in any hurry to ever make another.

[Glenn Wilde]

I like big bullets on both acoustic and electric steel, I love the 1" Silica Sound glass bar, it's real easy to hold and sounds great, I also have this old Zum 1" bar, I think it's probably stainless with the middle drilled out, they are both the same size and I ain't dropped them yet

[Paul Douglas]

I'm new to lap steel and also exploring the tone bar options. I've been using a Shubb SP1 and I like it - it's much better than the lighter, shorter unbranded bar I started off with. However, I reckoned I needed to try a bullet bar too so, following lots of recommendations, have just got a Dunlop 919, and I can't use it at all. For a start, I've got quite big hands and it seems much too small, and almost impossible to grip. There is no way I could lift it off the strings and not drop it. Maybe I was lucky and found my ideal bar, the SP1, early and should just stick with that. On the other hand, it's hard not to try out some other things: would I be better off with a bigger bullet bar that might be easier to grip? Or would something lighter or less slippery than steel be easier for me? Thinking about this and related issues led me to this very interesting thread - lots of great suggestions and plenty to think about, plus a few specific questions (which I'll base on one particular post though I'd appreciate any and all feedback):

Bluegrass players tend to pick the bar up off the strings often, and play hammer-ons and pull-ofs using the corner of the bar. The shape of the bar tends to make slants more difficult ...

Players who use a bullet bar tend to keep the bar on the strings and employ a more fluid movement. This requires learning techniques for blocking unwanted string noise while moving the bar from one position to the next. The bar is held in a very relaxed fashion, which can be hard to master, and manipulated with the thumb between straight, forward and reverse slant positions.

Any combination of the these two basic approaches are acceptable in my opinion, it just depends on the music you wish to play.

I'm aiming to play blues, def not bluegrass (or country or hawaiian). I'd love to be able to play "slow blues" like this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFchuC8 ... NE&index=3 of Justin Johnson playing a 50s Fender lap steel. He's using what looks like a ceramic guitar slide, and I don't think anyone recommends starting out with that for lap steel. I'm doing Lessons With Troy (following the Open D course) which get lots of recommendations and I can see why - I really like his teaching style. He uses a Stevens bar and seem to do quite a lot of hammer-ons and pull-offs, but maybe that's because he is primarily a dobro player. I like the idea of keeping the bar on the strings and using a a fluid and relaxed technique, assuming I could master one, though whether this would lend itself to blues playing I don't know.

I would try both and make as much music as you can with either or both. If you are inspired to play a very specific style then concentrate on using the bar that allows you to most easily learn the required techniques.

Any suggestions about what that is likely to be for what I'm aiming for? I live in Ireland so getting anything that comes from anywhere outside the EU is seriously expensive, so it would be good to have some sort of starting point rather than just buying things to try out.

Early on when learning I did find the polymer coated bars, like what Todd Clinesmith sells to be much easier to hold on to. They are more expensive than a regular polished steel bar, but I think worth it. There is some difference in tone between steel and polymer but I like them both equally.

Would something like a ceramic bar offer a similar sort of grip? I've looked at the Clinesmith bars and they do look good but it would cost me a lot to get one over here, but I could buy a ceramic bar locally.

Thank you.

[HowardR]

or,.......find a combination/hybrid bar......the yellow one is a Hillman......the other looks like a Shubb Pearce but there's no markings on it and can't find it anywhere....... I don't remember where I obtained it.......

hybrid bars (2).jpg

[Lee Rider]

I use a rail bar that a friend made for me. I've had quite a few injuries to my left hand so holding a bullet bar is difficult.

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[Paul Douglas]

Thank you both so much for your replies.

HowardR: the yellow bar looks so cool I sort of want one just for the sake of it I've checked the Hillman website and sadly it looks like they are no longer available - I couldn't see one at least. The other bar is interesting because it might not be too hard to make something similar by glueing some sort of handle onto a standard steel bar. Something to think about at least.

Lee: your rail bar also looks interesting because the radius of the curve looks closer to a bullet bar than the ones on my Stevens bars, though I don't know anyone who would have the capability of making such a thing.

Anyway, food for thought - thanks again.

[Mark Evans]

Contact Michael Hillman directly. Super nice guy. He might just have unsold grooved bars - just not on his webpage. I prefer a shorter (under 3”) bar; when I inquired, he said he had a few orphan 2 7/8” bars. 3” and longer are more popular.
Note: his 3” tapered bars are sweet.

Thank you both so much for your replies.

HowardR: the yellow bar looks so cool I sort of want one just for the sake of it I've checked the Hillman website and sadly it looks like they are no longer available - I couldn't see one at least.

Anyway, food for thought - thanks again.

[Paul Douglas]

Mark: thanks, I will give that a try.

Paul

[Lee Rider]

Lee: your rail bar also looks interesting because the radius of the curve looks closer to a bullet bar than the ones on my Stevens bars, though I don't know anyone who would have the capability of making such a thing.




Actually, that is the bar I use for pedal steel, made out of 1-1/8" stock. He made another one for me that started out as a 1" bullet bar but it did not have enough mass for pedal steel. I use that one on my dobro and lap steel for old blues and swing type stuff but not nimble enough for bluegrass so I use a Shubb bar for that genre.

[BJ Burbach]

Normally, I use Dunlop bullets, the usual suspects.
This is pretty weird, but I like that glass Rockslide tone bar, for lap and dobro. It's a bit midrangey, but smooth. Not sure they are made anymore.
Even weirder, I tried a Dunlop 211 with a Craftsman 7/16" socket wrench slid in for weight, held in with a sliver of a rubber band. For $18, I am actually liking it more all the time. You get a well on both ends, too, really firm to grip and really smooth. It's OK for 6 string, but at 70mm, a bit short for 8 stringers. I am begging Dunlop to make an 80mm version of the 211, but no dice, so far.
BJ

[Paul Douglas]

or,.......find a combination/hybrid bar......the yellow one is a Hillman......the other looks like a Shubb Pearce but there's no markings on it and can't find it anywhere....... I don't remember where I obtained it.......


hybrid bars (2).jpg

Nearest I could find to your Shubb is their GS1, which probably lots of people have seen. I find that it catches on the higher strings so is difficult in that way, but a lot more comfortable to use than the basic Stevens bar - I can play for much longer without my hand aching and that's important: I'm not exactly in the first flush of youth and I don't want to end up with an injured hand. I think I might try making my own handle and super-gluing to to a bullet bar, maybe that will work out to be the best of both worlds.

[Gary Meixner]

Paul,

How are you doing in your quest to find a tone bar? Are you aware of the Ezzee-Slide tone bars offered by Basil Henriques who often posts on this forum and is also the administrator of the Fender Pedal Steel Forum. Basil is from the UK. I have not tried one of his tone bars but they are polymer coated which is a feature I have found makes the bar easier to hold.

G. Meixner

[Paul Douglas]

Gary: thank you very much for that, it would certainly be easier for me to get one from UK and I've just checked and he is still selling them. I'm trying to work out why the bar with the wooden handle is so much more comfortable. I don't think it's about the weight, there really isn't any when it's resting on the strings. I think it might be about how tall the bar is. I have a cheap basic one that I got to try out when I ordered the guitar and the height from the bottom of the bar to the bottom of the groove my finger rests in is exactly one inch and it's definitely easier on my hand than the Shubb SP1. The wooden handled bar is even higher, about 9/8" I'd say. On the SP1 it's only 3/4" and maybe that difference pushes my finger past the point where it's comfortable. I'm going to try a few different sizes of dowel just to see what holding them is like; if, say, a 1" one is comfortable, I'll try one of the Ezzee-slide bars in that size as I like the idea of the easier-to-grip coating.

Thanks again.

Paul

[Gary Meixner]

Paul,
I think you are on the right track, just keep trying different bars until you find one that works for you. If you are just starting out every bar will feel unfamiliar and some might feel like you couldn't imagine how you could make them work. Once you get hooked on playing steel guitar you can adjust your approach if you find the bar is holding you back. Make music, have fun and don't worry too much about gear or developing bad habits.

A few years ago I drove three hours to play some music in club with an old friend of mine. When I unpacked my gear I discovered I had left my collection of tone bars at home. The second floor of the club was being remodeled; I rummaged through the plumbing supplies and found a stash of 3/4" chrome plated water supply pipe fittings, one happened to be 3" long. I took that and walked up the street to a sporting goods store and bought some large lead split-shot sinkers and filled the pipe with lead; then using a dowel and hammer I mashed the sinkers together inside the pipe so they wouldn't fall out. I had a tone bar so to speak. It was awkward for sure at first, but by the end of the night I gotten use to it. It wasn't a bullet bar like I prefer to use but I was making music and having fun.

Best of luck,

Gary Meixner

[Paul Douglas]

Hi Gary - that's brilliant! I have lots of bits of plumbing kit so I can probably find a few different sizes of pipe and try them to get a feel for the size, then buy something of similar dimensions. Thanks again for the encouragement, much appreciated.