The Steel Guitar Forum

Dear Karen, I mostly play Upright bass and dobro but pedal steel is my dream. I am fortunate enough to play in several bands and sometimes for money. It's about the music. I am an accompanist and my job like yours is to make the song, the group, the lead singer sound better. That means musicianship of the best quality. If what I do gets me better gigs with quality people then I'm doing it right. Be the best you can be, you have worked hard at your craft and if it gets to much to bear then stand your ground and get your band mates to either trust you because you can excel at your job or wait till a better gig comes along. Make good music my friend, pedal steel is an art.

wow thank you for all the thoughtful responses. i am going to take the weekend to think about things, but my feeling is that i am probably on my way out. Im in too many bands as it is, but with my luck I'll probably end up quitting the one that actually goes somewhere !

Nobody ever went anywhere playing strictly cover songs done exactly like the record. These guys sound
like a bunch of egotistical amateurs. JMO

Even great bands like Hank Thompson's Brazos Valley Boys (who played on the original records) played the songs exactly like the record. There were always some minor variations.

Hi Karen. I can't offer any advice you probably haven't already learned from some good pros here on the forum or already thought of yourself.

Having said that, I wanted to expand a little on what Jim and John posted and contribute a quotation concerning the music business in general from the perspective of a true American "social observer/commentator" and journalist.

“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.
There’s also a negative side.”
Hunter S. Thompson

Best wishes and hope it works out in your best interests and goals.

Walter

Karen - I almost responded to your previous post but didn't want to come off as negative. Still don't but i'll bite anyway.
#1 - Every second of our lives is precious and gone as soon as it just happened so use every moment as a learning experience, and it's not just about music, it's about life and it's about people.
#2 - Use your time as wisely as you can. Time goes so fast. Ask yourself if YOU are wasting your time or not. Forget THEM. THEY are wasting YOUR time. How you use you time is your business, don't let ANYONE waste your time, EVER. Use your time the way YOU want, it's your time & once it's gone, it's never to return.
#3 - On her 95th birthday, I asked my great aunt Lydia for any general advice about life. Nothing in particular, just general life advice. She said and I quote,
"Go thru life as happy as you can and if anyone rubs you the wrong way, just walk away, but before you do, tell 'em to STICK IT!"

Lol thanks everyone really good advice here and a bit to think about. I want to be sure that if I do decide to set limits or quit that I am solid in my decision. I tend to be easily persuaded and second guess decisions. When I am playing a gig I am happy, almost regardless of the situation, it's all the additional crap with this band that is getting to me...

I was in a band, like that, once, a long time ago. Everything "just like the record" I remember learning the lead guitar part, to Keeper Of The Stars, note for note! I spent a long time getting it just right---then I heard the "live version"--completely different! I was doing it better than Tracy Byrd's road player! I started listening to live versions, and comparing them to the studio version. I came to the conclusion, that most of the star's road bands don't even do it "just like the record", so why should I, in a cover band, waste my time doing it. IMO bands that try to sound exactly like the records they are covering, will probably never make it big, because they are trying to sound like someone else, and don't have their own identity. I avoid those kind of bands. I played for a couple of minor recording artists--never got rich or famous, but had a LOT of fun, and at age 76, if I could do it all over again, I wouldn't change a thing -Jake-

Karen,consider this; play the music you like with the people you like at the venues you like under the circumstances you can tolerate. If you have some leverage you can exploit, use it. No need to stress out other wise. Based on your background and accomplishment,you would appear to have some clout, if they are requesting your skill set. If they are coming to you,they respect your talent.Don't underestimate that.I don't know what you can do with that,but there you go.I wish you the all the best. I'll bet the Forum is pulling for you.Just hang in there.

Karen.. First off let me say this.. This band is a dream band.. However, its not YOUR dream.. Thats the problem..

btw, Paying to rehearse is common in metro areas..

IMHO, if you are paid the same as everyone else, you pay the same as they do.
Lugging gear, too. If you make equal pay, its for equal work.. UNLESS you stipulate otherwise, and your band mates agree..


Modern country gigs SUCK for pedal steel players these days.. I have done plenty, and have played with the best in the area.. They are loud, and the star syndrome is usually strong..
I suppose it depends on what you are looking for.

Is it steady work and lots of asses in the seats listening to your band?. In that case you may want to stay where you are..

More satisfaction/stimulation for your musical soul?
Move on to something that is more to your liking..

I would explain your situation and your feeling with your new country band before you make the move.


I will disagree with all our friends here on one point..
They DON'T need you. They WANT you.. big difference.

You are getting stepped on in the mix, you aren't shining forth musically.. Your artistry is going unappreciated by the folks that are there listening to your band.
Take it from me, if you are playing with a posturing " modern country" band playing at ear splitting levels with a rock star guitarist stomping all over the pads you lay down, you aren't needed.. I personally would go where I was NOT the "icing on the cake".. Yes you are working, and thats something.. However its not fulfilling, and you really sound like thats really what you want...

Music is an art.. Sometimes artists have to do things they don't want to do just so they can eat,,

Do you NEED the money you make with these guys??
If its not a money thing, you CAN do better as an artist... bob

A few yrs. ago, I got tangled up in a band with a 17yr. old female singer. She was cute, had a decent voice, but had the stage presence of a Stump. We rehearsed in an office space twice a wk. Her mother paid for the space, and managed the band. She had a record of her original songs that we learned. I played several gigs with her for free, and had one gig that paid us $125. The girl and her mom finally gave up, disbanded the band, cause that dog just wasn't gonna hunt. Lesson Learned?.....Get in a band like I'm in now, play guitar, pedal steel, no rehearsals, the guys load this old mans stuff, pay me a little money, and I drive home.....I'm very fortunate that these guys love my pickin' so much, that when I go to The Barrett Jackson Auto Auction, and SWSGA Steel Guitar Show in Phoenix, this wk. they cancelled our next weekend gig, cause they just don't like to play without me.....And it could be that my Long White Beard, Overalls, and of course The Black Emmons is something that dresses up the stage with a Cool Factor.

Close one door and another one opens

b0b wrote:If I were you I'd quit.

I'd hang. Time takes care of bands and things.
Where else your energy is going is what will happen, other people and bands

In the meantime it may be a lesson. [Now the lesson never applies elsewhere; in this case
it may be the band's lesson is that all this equipment (and isolating earbuds) are the future for them.]
Meanwhile you're there to make music, so I say that's where you'll find yourself when the smokepots clear. The 'lesson' may not be about you.
Further, if it is some lesson you're learning, practicing--aren't you there to perform as you've already had lessons?
If it's already a question of time, you may be fine where you are for the moment.

I play in a modern country band that pays for rehearsal space. I pay my share; $25 per month. The band splits the money equally at all gigs so I don't feel abused to also pay my share for the rehearsal space. If your band is the typical star/sideman, where the money is not divided equally, then you should not be paying for rehearsal space.

I always help with the loading and tearing down of the equipment, even the PA. Somebody has to do it. And I find the younger guys frequently help me with my heavier gear.

Regarding the music itself, the lead guitar gets the lion's share of the solos and fills. That's certainly what you hear on the radio. If you're in a band that plays the radio tunes, then you have to accept a lesser role. I try not to let it get to me too much because it's not really a reflection on my playing skills. There is still a challenge to playing such music on PSG: how to add something that's not on the recording, even if just a note or two.

There are plenty of gigs where at the end of the night I feel like no one knows I can play, because it was just all guitar all night long. But once in awhile I get more playing time.

It sure is a lot more fun to play in a classic country band, or country swing band, or almost anything other than a modern country band. But if you want to play the local gigs, ... well you know.

Well,I'm a little late to this party,but Karen's gig has so many red flags they might as well be the Kremlin house band.I could parse the situation,but what strikes me the most is when things pile up that you're not happy with,it's time to cut your losses.

Charlie does make some excellent points.

Ignoring my previously glib answer, I look at it like a balance sheet with debits and credits. All the good things about the gig, like pay, good tunes, hip venues, exposure etc., go on the credit side.

The debit side has stuff like diva front man, asshole band member, lots of driving, lame tunes, etc.

The great gigs have mostly on the credit side and very little debit. As the debit side grows the enjoyment of the gig lessens. When the debits are more than the credits, the gig is a job and getting to be a real drag. Finally the debits so outweigh the credits and then you know its time to split.

I have done this in the past, seriously. Get a piece of paper and make two columns, debits and credits. Then put your mind to what you like and dislike and write it down. The writing it down is important because reading it will clarify your thoughts.

It works for any decision-making, really. Not just gigs.

"That doesn't sound like the record..."

"Well, that's what the record would have sounded like if I played on it..."

Herb's approach is a good one. I have done exactly the same thing.

I tried the balance sheet approach...i dont know...sitting at 51 percent for a long time can suck your passion away. The people that control the band are probably aware of the calculation...and tend to arrange circumstances so its 100 percent for them and 50 percent for you. Its bully.

music and bandlife is about heart...mutual commitment to each others goals... reciprosity... respect... friendship... growth.. future prospects.. if those things arent there its a non starter...its no investment opportunity.

Some great advice above for sure...heres my way of repeating it...

if you have to think too hard about something or someone...its not the right fit...no need to analyse the crap out of this stuff. Peace of mind is the goal...

you have to choose the people you want to be successful with...dont let people choose you.

Our innate instincts toward people and situations are truth...our instincts are the inner core and most highly evolved part of the brain...relax..trust yourself...

You have to be satisfied with your own definition of success. There is no success in riding coattails. Never look in the rear view mirror.

Thank you all so much for all the great support and advice forum friends. A problem shared really is a problem cut in half ! I am still leaning towards getting out or at least stating some limits. I have already been approached by 3 other projects so i will still have work if I do quit. Going to make a list tomorrow, but I think I am just in a different position than the rest of the guys in the band. I don't want as much structure as they do in a band. For me it's more about the music and less about the gear or having everything be perfect. I'm fine with doing that if they are paying me the big bucks but I think there are other bands out there that will give me more satisfaction and equal pay. the advice I have gotten here has helped me so much, thanks again guys

Hi Karen,
I've never been to Boston and I don't know you, but I get the impression that everybody on here likes you, and the "pros" have given you some sound advice. Nobody likes a bully and there are bound to be too many nice people around Boston for you to put up with the bullies in this band. Jon, Herb, Jim and Tony and the others are right on target.

Why would they require $30 for you to rehearse with them? It doesn't sound like a $30 dollar value to me. Be careful who you audition for. Most bands should probably audition for you! Whatever you do, please keep us posted.

All the best to you Karen.

Craig

Hi,
This band is using you! Get the hell out .If they can have an argument about a 1instead of a 4 chord well that smacks of ,
1) lack of musical knowledge
2) lack of imagination
3) no concept of playing as a band
4) no coping strategies to deal with the problem
The band sounds it could be unstable due to these issues and I would have thought it is only a matter of time before the inevitable happens - they obviously don't want to make music just churn out covers note for note - DJ springs to mind.Even the original artists don't play note for note in live situations . I can't think of anything worse than being stifled and used - think musical freedom!
Regards Dave

Yeah that 4 chord thing really made me question my sanity. I did mention to the guys that these bands don't play exactly like the record when playing live. I do think they want to be sort of a live jukebox band. That's cool for tribute bands and and good for learning other people's styles of playing, and the truth is that the modern country just doesn't have that many interesting or challenging steel parts to learn, so I would rather be able to add my own flavor then copy someone's guitar part or play a few slides here and there. I have spent hours and hours learning Mooney licks, Paul Franklin lick, sneaky Pete and Lloyd Green. I feel that I have some good influences to draw from and know when and when not to play. I keep telling them that featuring the pedal steel a bit more instead of lead guitar all the time could make the band really stand out. Especially around these parts a little steel guitar goes a long way. Every gig I have played with them someone in the audience has said to me " I would love to hear more steel guitar instead of lead guitar and fiddle all the time". But every time I try to claim a little space they all need it planned out and rehearsed instead of just listening to each other and maybe backing off a bit when I come in. They are just not at that level musically I think. Plus they all come from hard rock backgrounds which is very different from where I come from musically having played guitar, bass, and steel professionally in bands ranging from jazz to rock to blues to country wher I have learned that listening is everything and 2nd is knowing when to play and when not to play. Music to me is intuitive and playing in bands is about listening. Maybe I'm just not cut out for the structure of "as the record plays it" cover bands.

Sounds like you just made the decision for yourself, Karen.

Now come on down to Texas and play some real music with us...

Hi Karen ,
I think you have answered your own question. From what you say you appear to be a true musician who tries to empathise musically with fellow players around you at that moment in time of playing.
It is obvious from what you say that this does not happen with this band and I fear that frustration will be an overwhelming problem for you .
Regards Dave.

Karen, I think the key is a small part of what Bob Carlucci said above, and if I can paraphrase:

Ask yourself WHAT do you want out of this? WHY are you playing with thrm?

Much of what you have said indicates you want fun, personal satisfaction, musical growth. In that case leaving seems prudent.

But in another post, you said something about if these guys make it big and you have left, you'd regret it. If that is your goal, you may come to a different answer.

It all depends on what YOU are looking to do and to be.