I need some professional advice

[Karen Sarkisian]

Hey forum friends I really need some professional advice. I recently posted in a thread about being disappointed in new country music, so if you need a little background you can find it there. Long story short I am in this "new" country cover band in Boston. The singer is an up and coming country artist with a lot of followers. So here's the problem: The band is out of control with the gear. We are playuing medium sized venues on weeknights, hoping to get weekend gigs. It all country covers at this point, no originals, and they want to play everything pretty much like on the record, so there is not a lot of room for me to play or be creative. Now I know I am not the greatest steel player on the planet, but I am a Berklee Educated lifetime musician who has worked very hard on pedal steel, and feel that I have moved past just learning stuff like on the records. I dont mind doing it if I get to also play some of my own solos, and add my own playing to the band. At last nights gig, 3 or the 6 of us had in-ear monitors and insisted on using them even though they were absolutely not needed for the venue. We never got a full on sound check because there was so much time getting these guys in-ears dialed in that there was no time for a sound check. Stage volume was crap because everything was going thru these in-ears. I couldnt hear myself halfway thru the second set so i turned my amp up and the guitarist got all pissed of because my volume went up in his in ears. meanwhile all i could hear was the bass and drums. These guys feel that the in-ears is the way to go for the whole band so now they want me to shell out for some for myself. They also expect me to pitch in $30/month for rehearsal which is an hour away for me. Menwhile I get 2 4 measure solos in teh whole set while the guitar player and electric fiddle solo in every tune. I ahve already tried to quit this band a few times, but they pull me back in as they need a steel player and around these parts they are hard to find. I really just need a reality check about this situation. I am afraid to quit because I do think the gigs will get better, and the reality is that the new country are the only real paying gigs, but I think these guys are more about the gear than the music. Lights, huge amps, in ear monitors. they even brought (and paid) their own sound guy even tho there was a sound guy and PA at the venue. I would love some feedback on this, thanks guys..

[Jon Light]

There are many other people here with much stronger "professional" credentials but one thing that strikes me as obvious-----you will never be on the same page as the people with the real power in this band. It will always be stressful. You will always be at loggerheads (whatever that is). Success of the band will not mean a smoother road for you and your personal/musical growth.
As the magic 8-ball would say, "Outlook not so good".
Your posts here make it quite clear to me that you will succeed and grow and that you do not need to hang on to stuff like this as if it were your only way forward.

[Jack Hanson]

They need you way more than you need them.

Under the circumstances, I'd quit. For good this time.

[Storm Rosson]

I'd look at it as a paid jam session, if they get pissed enuff they'll can ya but until then have fun and play what u want.

[Herb Steiner]

Karen... ditch the zeros and find you some heroes.

[Karen Sarkisian]

You guys are the best. thanks for validating what i was feeling in this situation.

I think when I joined I should have set some limits like:
1. I am only responsible for my own gear (i'm not hauling lights and p.a.'s)
2. I'm not into endless rehearsals and playing things exactly like the record
3. I need to be making a minimum of xx per gig
4. I'm not paying for rehearsal space.

I have learned that when playing with up and comers they are not going to take me along when they get big. they will head to nashville or wherever, so i am not really interested in being "in the band" but more of a hired hand.

[Jim Cohen]

I ahve already tried to quit this band a few times, but they pull me back in as they need a steel player and around these parts they are hard to find. I really just need a reality check about this situation. ...

There's your reality check right there, Karen. They need you way more than you need them. Therefore you calmly state your terms for staying with them and they can either accept on terms that you're happy to continue with, or else you leave and look elsewhere. You have to be firm in your mind - no bluffing. Chances are, if they find a weaker steeler, they'll come back looking for you in the future if and when the gigs become higher-profile. And then you will again state your terms of engagement, right?

[Tucker Jackson]

Surely a town as culturally rich as Boston will have several bands that play exactly your style of music (regardless of what it may be). You may not know about them but they're out there -- and they're just waiting to be contacted by you so they can add a cool steel player.

[b0b]

If I were you I'd quit.

[Bob Hoffnar]

Depends on the money. If a band cannot come up with $2000 per month then I can always drive around during rush hour if I need to feel frustrated.

With that:
In ears are great for that sort of band and they don't need to be fancy or expensive. There are new and cheap monitor boards that you can dial in your own mix in with your smart phone or ipad.

Playing solos and constant fills is kinda rediculous in my opinion. Finding a place inside the music can be very challenging and fun. There is an art to playing parts also. If you have just a few notes to play and you play the same thing every time you have the opportunity to focus on tone and phrasing. That is where the music and money is anyway.

I am not into rehearsing and I would never pay to rehearse. It is much more common to be paid to rehearse. But I am in a different situation.

If the money is okay and you like the people there is much to be learned from playing in a cover/show band.

[Karen Sarkisian]

I ahve already tried to quit this band a few times, but they pull me back in as they need a steel player and around these parts they are hard to find. I really just need a reality check about this situation. ...

There's your reality check right there, Karen. They need you way more than you need them. Therefore you calmly state your terms for staying with them and they can either accept on terms that you're happy to continue with, or else you leave and look elsewhere. You have to be firm in your mind - no bluffing. Chances are, if they find a weaker steeler, they'll come back looking for you in the future if and when the gigs become higher-profile. And then you will again state your terms of engagement, right?

Yes Jim, however I have been burned in the past, shlepping around doing mediocre gigs and then been replaced when the gigs got better. I just need to state my terms, you are right about that. Good God the music business is rough. I did audition with a band last week that I really enjoyed. more of a singer songwriter type situation but I felt totally appreciated. appreciation goes a long way with me.

[Jim Cohen]

I did audition with a band last week that I really enjoyed. more of a singer songwriter type situation but I felt totally appreciated. appreciation goes a long way with me.

Ah, well that sounds like a much better fit, Karen. Why not just go for that.

By the way, I enjoyed your set at PSGA this year and am sorry we didn't have a chance to meet and chat. I think any group would be lucky to have you.

Best,
Jim

[Karen Sarkisian]

Depends on the money. If a band cannot come up with $2000 per month then I can always drive around during rush hour if I need to feel frustrated.

With that:
In ears are great for that sort of band and they don't need to be fancy or expensive. There are new and cheap monitor boards that you can dial in your own mix in with your smart phone or ipad.

Playing solos and constant fills is kinda rediculous in my opinion. Finding a place inside the music can be very challenging and fun. There is an art to playing parts also. If you have just a few notes to play and you play the same thing every time you have the opportunity to focus on tone and phrasing. That is where the music and money is anyway.

I am not into rehearsing and I would never pay to rehearse. It is much more common to be paid to rehearse. But I am in a different situation.

If the money is okay and you like the people there is much to be learned from playing in a cover/show band.

Bob I do enjoy playing when I am playing gigs with them, adn I am definitely learning some stuff. But on every gig at least one person in the audience says they would like to hear more steel guitar, and past experience has shown me that at least around here people really dig steel solos. There was an argument at one of our practices a few months back where the bass player went to the 4 instead of playing the 1 on a particular measure, and it was not that way on the recording so we had to start over. I'm just not interested in spending time and money working stuff like that out. I think If they gave me more solos and didnt expect me to haul gear, and pay for a practice space I would stick with it, but as it is now its a bit ridiculous

[Karen Sarkisian]

I did audition with a band last week that I really enjoyed. more of a singer songwriter type situation but I felt totally appreciated. appreciation goes a long way with me.

Ah, well that sounds like a much better fit, Karen. Why not just go for that.

By the way, I enjoyed your set at PSGA this year and am sorry we didn't have a chance to meet and chat. I think any group would be lucky to have you.

Best,
Jim

thanks Jim. I was really nervous and a bit out of my league I think, especially going on after Doug J ! I did have fun though and it was a great experience. I would like to do more of those to get more comfortable.

[Jim Cohen]

Nobody likes to follow Doug but somebody's got to do it.

[Walter Killam]

When I got fed up with the kind of drama you're dealing with, I started my own band, that way I got to pick the guys that I work with.

This may not be an option for you but it's unusual to find a group that you can drop into and get the right fit right out of the gate. My Dad told me once that you need to work when the work is there because you'll get plenty of time wondering where your next meal is coming from, the point being - if you need the work & experience then continue as a learning experience. They may still be getting used to you too.

My advice - unless you have something better on the horizon stick with your group, it's hard to land a better gig if no one sees you playing. Do you write your own songs? If so, try to bring one to practice, see how the others feel about it. Stage Volume is usually a bit of a compromise, you'll have to decide if it's worth the battle with the others on that one.

$30/month for rehearsal doesn't seem all that bad to me, if you're renting a rehearsal studio, maybe you can find a Guitar Center with rehearsal studios that works better for everyone? (just a thought)

All that said, life is too short to spend a lot of time with gearhound jerks, so if you don't think they'll change, then you may want to start looking for your next spot!

[John Booth]

This is the life of a utility musician, and that's usually what they consider us.
However, you don't have to play with people that do not respect your talent or your
input. That being said, after having played nigh on 50 years now I will tell you this,
Playing with ANYBODY teaches you more than sitting at home. The most effective way to
improve is while being 1. On stage, and 2. Under pressure. You are probably learning
a great deal more than you realize because of the frustration.

My 2 cents worth of advice:
There are so few Steel players out there you can always find another band. Look for one,
play a gig or two, and if the situation is better, join them. The guys you're with now
are so wrapped up in their own world they will not suffer your leaving.
As time goes by and you gain more experience and adaption by playing with
other people you'll start to be in demand and your options will grow.

That's all I gots to say bout that.

[Karen Sarkisian]

Nobody likes to follow Doug but somebody's got to do it.

[Doug Beaumier]

Karen, dump those amateurs. I went through a similar situation 30 years ago, wasted a lot of time practicing with idiots, hauling lights & PA, supporting Their dream... and then I found a band where I was appreciated for who I am and for my playing. When I quit the "band of dreamers" they were stunned and kind of pissed off at me, so you can expect that kind of reaction. Remember: They need You more than you need them. Steel guitarists are rare and you will always be in demand.

[Karen Sarkisian]

Karen, dump those amateurs. I went through a similar situation 30 years ago, wasted a lot of time practicing with idiots, hauling lights & PA, supporting Their dream... and then I found a band where I was appreciated for who I am and for my playing. When I quit the "band of dreamers" they were stunned and kind of pissed off at me, so you can expect that kind of reaction. Remember: They need You more than you need them. Steel guitarists are rare and you will always be in demand.

thank you Doug

[John De Maille]

Karen, I've been in the music business longer that I'd like to state and I've been playing steel for 40 yrs, so, I can tell you, personally, that, the business of making music can be sooooo fickle. I've done very high paying gigs and gigs that have paid just enough for gas money. I've worked with some really great people and with some real BOZOs. Believe me that, the BOZOs seam to never leave my memory! If you're not happy with your situation leave! Someone as educated as you are should have no problem getting picked up by more appreciated players. It always take some time to find the right people to click with but, then you'll be happier. This business is filled with ego maniacs and narrow, thick minded people, who, refuse to see the larger picture. It sucks to be aggravated all the time and it will effect your playing, one way or another. You could ride along with them while you look for another group or venue to play with. Just remember that, they aren't your niche and things will get better after a while. As to the $30.00 a month..... That depends on the money you're making with them. If it's not that much of a deficit, no big deal. If it's depleting your bank account, substantially, I'd refuse to pay it and in the long run it's not worth it to stay with a band that you're unhappy with. These are just some thoughts for a young steel player, who's, getting her feet wet in a large pool.

[Jim Cohen]

This business is filled with ego maniacs and narrow, thick minded people, who, refuse to see the larger picture.

There's also a negative side...

[John De Maille]

This business is filled with ego maniacs and narrow, thick minded people, who, refuse to see the larger picture.

There's also a negative side...[/

HA! HA! HA! I was going to get to that in my next post.

[Tony Prior]

$30 a month ! What ! I wouldn't give them more than $29!

translation, I'm gonna be a star and it will only cost you $30 a month ! uhh..no 0H

I would not have lasted as long as you have!

[Jack Harper]

when herb say's it, I call my memory bank for a deposit. whether it's script, check or an i.o.u. it has never bounced,the dividends are tremendous and the lessons learned are timeless.
from what I remember of these type situations, they never got better.

country jack....