The Steel Guitar Forum

Posted: **7 Jan 2009 5:16 am**

Happy New Year Mac, you're right, I can't find a recorded version by him, but I DID credit him...the 7th post from the top has THIS in it :-

Posted: **7 Jan 2009 7:53 am**

So at what stage do we get to see a video of you and Pat, in grass skirts, demonstrating the Sophisticated Hula ?

You've whetted my appetite now. It must be quite a spectacular dance....

Posted: **7 Jan 2009 12:20 pm**

Alan Brookes wrote: You've whetted my appetite now. It must be quite a spectacular dance....

Yep ! Sophisticated Hula, It's the Talk of the Town..

Posted: **8 Jan 2009 10:37 am**

Sol K. Bright and His Hollywaiians: Sophisticated Hula/What Hawaii Means To Me, Brunswick 55094
Los Angeles May 24, 1937 - according to Malcolm Rockwell's discography "Hawaiian & Hawaiian Guitar Records 1891-1960".

Posted: **8 Jan 2009 11:33 am**

Thanx Max, we accidentally posted the magazine to your old address and it came back, so I posted it to your new address today ... oops!!

Posted: **8 Jan 2009 5:16 pm**

basilh wrote:...Sophisticated Hula, It's the Talk of the Town..

Well, it's not Basil and Pat doing it, but try this out....
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=x-gwm31nb0U

or this...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=q4KtLViJBis

They seem like two totally different dances to me. $:\$ $:\$ $:\$

Posted: **8 Jan 2009 5:32 pm**

The first one has the correct dance but the wrong words and chords, whilst the second clip has the music and lyrics correct but the vaudeville style dance doesn't even come close to a hula..

Posted: **8 Jan 2009 6:02 pm**

Just as an aside...Sol used to come up to our condo unit in the Banyan Tower where we would spend the afternoons jamming together. Wonderful times! Anyway,
one day I asked him what his favorite compositions were and his least favorite. He liked "Hawaiian Cowboy" but never had a great love for "Sophisticated Hula".

Posted: **8 Jan 2009 10:20 pm**

Re: The clips Alan posted:
The first clip (hula) is done very well...obviously taught properly.

The second clip is NOT hula at all, more like a country/western line-dance. $:\$

Posted: **9 Jan 2009 7:30 am**

George Keoki Lake wrote:...The second clip is NOT hula at all, more like a country/western line-dance. $:\$

John Robinson is a comedian. I don't expect anything serious from him.

Posted: **9 Jan 2009 10:59 am**

consider the passage of time with artistic interpretation of a cover song and that is very likely your answer. Cover bands don't always want to do an exact replica of a song. No matter what the style.
To sit in the analysis chair with out knowing all the facts is at best hit or miss.

Posted: **1 Jan 2011 3:07 am**

Happy New Year..

And this post is still relevant.

Brought to mind by the tab in the December 2010 issue of "Aloha Dream" 'Sweet Hawaiian Kisses'
Rarely recorded, and EVERY time I've heard it performed at conventions etc. it's been "Modified" to the detriment of the harmonic structure.

This Solomon Ho‘opi‘i Ka‘ai‘ai song needs to be passed on in its correct form, far too many incorrect versions are being played, on records and at conventions. In particular the double dominant 9th chord is being omitted to the detriment of the harmonic structure. Also the chord in the middle section the (dominant seventh raised a semitone)5#7th chord is being substituted with a sub dominant minor. NOT the composer’s intent.

And before you take up the cudgel again AJ, the chair I sit in is padded with YEARS of experience of playing live and producing records aimed at the general public.
I'm quite comfortable there when discussing lack of diligence being passed of as "the Folk Process" or the band's originality..nothing but excuses for not caring, or being able to hear/play the tune correctly.
Personally if I heard a recording of a composition of mine and felt it incorrect, I'd sue, using the "parodied version" criteria.

You MAY say "Arrogant" self "Opinionated" comments from an "Intransigent" point of view... Yes, totally correct, but don't forget to factor in "Knowledgeable" (according to some)

Posted: **1 Jan 2011 2:14 pm**

I voted for the original even though I think most versions have something to recommend them. We have two discussions going on here; one technical and one of taste. The latter is impossible to define, but I'm not going to shirk my aesthetic responsibility. The version by The Makaha Sons is just plain dreadful. Its elevator music.

Posted: **1 Jan 2011 4:29 pm**

basilh wrote:
And before you take up the cudgel again AJ, the chair I sit in is padded with YEARS of experience of playing live and producing records aimed at the general public.
I'm quite comfortable there when discussing lack of diligence being passed of as "the Folk Process" or the band's originality..nothing but excuses for not caring, or being able to hear/play the tune correctly.
Personally if I heard a recording of a composition of mine and felt it incorrect, I'd sue, using the "parodied version" criteria.

You MAY say "Arrogant" self "Opinionated" comments from an "Intransigent" point of view... Yes, totally correct, but don't forget to factor in "Knowledgeable" (according to some)

Let's add self absorbed, stuck thinker and most of all douche baggy for bringing up a two year thread with a fairly clear intention to instigate something. Oh and Mr knowledgeable tunes get reharmnonized all the time. Under copyright law, progressions are not covered.
Parody? Yes you are.

You failed to mention that the chair you straddle is padded with a whoopee cushion.

Toodles.

Posted: **1 Jan 2011 6:10 pm**

AJ and Basil, I suggest pistols at twenty paces. 5AM at any location of your choosing.

Posted: **1 Jan 2011 6:47 pm**

chords? what chords? that's the back-up's job!

Posted: **1 Jan 2011 7:20 pm**

I prefer saber']s. Fair warning I have had a good amount of 'experience'.I'm good with a sword too

Posted: **2 Jan 2011 3:09 am**

Aj, I really don't wish to duel with you, but you're wrong (again) this time for suspecting my motives. When you say

"Let's add self absorbed, stuck thinker and most of all douche baggy for bringing up a two year thread with a fairly clear intention to instigate something."

that's NOT why I resurrected the post, I DID say

And this post is still relevant.

Brought to mind by the tab in the December 2010 issue of "Aloha Dream" 'Sweet Hawaiian Kisses'
Rarely recorded, and EVERY time I've heard it performed at conventions etc. it's been "Modified" to the detriment of the harmonic structure.

This Solomon Ho‘opi‘i Ka‘ai‘ai song needs to be passed on in its correct form, far too many incorrect versions are being played, on records and at conventions. In particular the double dominant 9th chord is being omitted to the detriment of the harmonic structure. Also the chord in the middle section the (dominant seventh raised a semitone)5#7th chord is being substituted with a sub dominant minor. NOT the composer’s intent.

That was my reason, but knowing you would respond I added the section you've quoted..

As for chords and reharmonising, I have no problem with that, what I've spoken about is changing the melody to suit the incorrect chords, if that's OK then you may as well rewrite the words as well. OR, better still Write a new song instead.

I have vowed that for the next two to three years I'll "Take no Prisoners"

Since 1970 I've produced hit records for the very top echelon in Ireland, like Daniel O'Donnell (He has scored some 19 singles and 17 album UK pop chart successes, with album sales having crossed the five million mark.) and I've also produced for some of the USA's tops, Hank Locklin, Shot Jackson and Donna.
I no longer need to justify my stance with footnotes to other sources, or doff my cap to protagonists and proponents of the "debunk Basil at all costs" standpoint. My own track record is acknowledged by many as providing a reasonably accurate source.

Again AJ, I don't wish to fight with you, but I'm faily sure that most of what I post is correct, whereas you did exaggerate my badness, maybe!

Posted: **2 Jan 2011 3:16 am**

And then there's this version Rudy W

This example is EXACTLY what I'm talking about..Superb musicianship very good engineering (Bar the usual 2 buckets too much reverb) BUT, although Rudy's playing is superb and his variations on the melody are in good taste and don't detract from the composer's intent (Because they are intimating the correct notes) the producer and vocalists are SO WRONG.. I.E.
Swing your partner round, Hear this lovely sound ? Should be "Soon you'll cover ground"
And :-
A native hula maiden THEY love to dance ?
They do their dancing to the beating of LOVE
Is actually "the native hula maidens they love to dance, they do their dancing to the beating of drums"

And a myriad more of misheard lyrics..

A good version of the song, could have been so much better..

Funny Mondegreens are know throughout the world, but in this example, this type of "INSUFFICIENT STUDY" isn't helpful to the perpetration of the genre' of Hapa Haole Hawaiian Music.

Dutch players will have taken this version to be their definitive version and so pass it along believing it to be correct, that's what I'm saying regarding due diligence, we owe it to the composer to perpetrate his intent melodically and lyrically, any deviation is not only disrespectful but shows lack of study of the song/tune and reflects on the performer's integrity..

As an aside :-
Some funny extract from the Wikipedia page on mondegreens
Examples in song lyrics

* The "top 3" mondegreens submitted regularly to mondegreen expert Jon Carroll are:[1]

1. Gladly the cross-eyed bear[3] (from the line in the hymn "Keep Thou My Way" by Fanny Crosby, "Kept by Thy tender care, gladly the cross I'll bear")[6] Carroll and many others quote it as "Gladly the cross I'd bear". Ed McBain used the mondegreen as the title of a novel. Also, this mondegreen is paraphrased by the band They Might Be Giants in their song "Hide Away Folk Family" (Sadly the cross-eyed bear's been put to sleep behind the stairs, and his shoes are laced with irony.)
2. There's a bathroom on the right (the line at the end of each verse of "Bad Moon Rising" by Creedence Clearwater Revival: "There's a bad moon on the rise")
3. 'Scuse me while I kiss this guy (from a lyric in the song "Purple Haze", by Jimi Hendrix: "'Scuse me while I kiss the sky").

et al.:

Posted: **2 Jan 2011 3:20 am**

By good friend Bill Wynne (Winner of many Falsetto awards)said:-

Happy New Year, everyone! Sorry to stay away so long.

Baz, you hit on one of my pet peeves. I was not thinking about Sophisticated Hula at all this morning, but on my way to work I heard a recent record of Alex Anderson's Blue Lei that nearly sent me through the moon roof. I think the most beautiful section of this tune goes...

When your blue eyes looked into mine
It was then the sun began to shine...

The intervallic leaps in these four bars could not have been lifted from anywhere. There are unique and rare and should be treated that way. But, I suspect because they are difficult intervals to master, singers just spit the words out and let the notes fall where they may.

I think this is true of many tunes by composers of Hawaiian song who took any influence from mainland jazz or popular standards. I am thinking of Alex Anderson, Andy Cummings, Mary Kawena Pukui and Maddy Lam, and even Irmgard Aluli. Hawaiian music has traditionally been a one section, I-IV-V medium. When these writers started introducing chromatics, secondary dominants, and B- and C-sections into the compositions, that was truly avant garde.

Baz found many examples of Andy Cummings' Sophisticated Hula gone wrong, but that is not the first tune that leapt to my mind. I have never heard the bridge of Waikiki played correctly. Ne-ver.

A true story: Some friends of mine, young amateur musicians in Hawai`i trying to make it professionally, were booked to back-up some veteran singers at a political fundraiser last year. Little did they know they would have to back up Marlene Sai singing Waikiki. (Her uncle Andy wrote it. She just made it one of the most popular records from Hawai`i ever.) They bollixed (that's the word, isn't it, Baz?) it real good. Later, another singer thanked the band publicly over the mic for their able support of the singers. And one guitarist whispers, "Really? I didn't think we were doing too good." And the singer said, "You're not. That's called sarcasm."

Last year I was asked to sing for a local hula troup. The song was Mary Kawena Pukui and Maddy Lam's Po La`ila`i. This is one of my favorites. But the first question I asked was, "Does the band know the chords?" And I was told they had been rehearsing for weeks. So I talked to the band and said, "Tell me the chords you play." They told me, and I knew that there was no way I was going to break their bad habit. They were treating the song like a typical Hawaiian song, playing:

G ( 8 ) C ( 4 ) G ( 8 ) A7 ( 4 ) D7 ( 4 ) G ( 4 )

When the chords, in fact, are:

G ( 8 ) C ( 4 ) G ( 4 ) B7 ( 4 ) Em ( 2 ) A7 ( 2 ) G ( 2 ) D7 ( 2 ) G ( 4 )

Look at how slick and jazzy the real chords are - and when played this way the melody doesn't butt heads with the chords.

So I would chalk it up to this: Hawaiian music is folk music, and folk music is supposed to be comprehensible to the "everyman." Once in a while a Hawaiian composer deviates from the norm, and so untrained eyes and ears aren't going to hear that nuance.

Posted: **2 Jan 2011 4:14 am**

Brevity being the soul of wit, I will just add a few mondgreens or maloprops: 1 An amusing antidote, 2 Kitchen cacciatore, 3 The Pulitzer surprise.

Posted: **2 Jan 2011 5:15 am**

Nice ones David..

With regard to my resurrection of this thread motivated by my observations regarding "Sweet Hawaiian Kisses". This is NOT the complete tab for "Sweet Hawaiian Kisses",(It's missing the middle 8 and last 4) you'll only get that if you're a subscriber to Aloha Dream..

But it clearly shows the 2 7th chord (Double Dominant) that's so oft times omitted.
I included a very nice "Barney Alvin Kalanikau Isaacs Jr" trick on the last two chords.

Posted: **2 Jan 2011 6:44 am**

Here's a couple more versions of Sophisticated Hula:

Sol K. Bright

http://picosong.com/PZA

Leon McAuliffe with Bob Wills

http://picosong.com/PZT

Leon's take is from May 1938. I wonder where he first heard it?

Didn't Jerry Byrd do a version circa 1940?

Posted: **2 Jan 2011 7:40 am**

Great stuff Mitch Thanks..
It's hard to find fault with the Sol K Bright version; after all it's the composer's own version.

BUT the Bob Wills version not only has the wrong chords in the middle but the steel player isn't even playing the correct melody at that point.. Why? the sheet music was published in 1937.

As for the year of that recording ?
I think that 1938 is close as the song was written in late 1937

More info HERE:- http://www.hulapages.com/covers_4.htm

Posted: **2 Jan 2011 3:28 pm**

Basil, I used to think something mystical within their muse meant that artists had broad and progressive minds. You can forgive a youngster for such muddle-headedness. Some, perhaps many, Musicians seem to arrive at a point of musical familiarity where they don’t just resent buying sheet music; to do so would damage their self-respect, if not their egos. The internet is cluttered with versions of songs that have been written out under these delusions. Some of the writers are just plain tightwads.

The Steel Guitar Forum

Rewriting the chords to Sophisticated Hula ?

I Made a "Boo Boo" !!