I got to wondering just when people started rewriting the chords to Sophisticated Hula ?
The first five versions below are as the composer intended, and THEN something changed, people started playing the middle section with different chords changing the melodic intent. I am wondering was this started by an accidental mishearing of the chord changes or was it deliberate bad taste ?
The parts that have been changed are on the section "The native Hula maidens they love to dance" etc. Maybe there have been other changes made but they're more lightly cosmetic rather than drastically wrong..IMHO
See what you think.
Say what you think.
1. Sophisticated Hula original
2. Sophisticated Hula original chords
3. Sophisticated Hula original chords
4. Sophisticated Hula original chords
5. Sophisticated Hula original chords
6. Sophisticated Hula wrong chords
7. Sophisticated Hula wrong again
8. Sophisticated Hula ditto
9. Sophisticated Hula altered again
10. Sophisticated Hula wrong chords AND Altered melody
Mele Kalikimaka me ka Hau'oli Makahiki Hou to all from Pat and myself
Basil
Rewriting the chords to Sophisticated Hula ?
Moderator: Brad Bechtel
-
Don Kona Woods
- Posts: 2726
- Joined: 11 Dec 2004 1:01 am
- Location: Hawaiian Kama'aina
-
c c johnson
- Posts: 1902
- Joined: 29 Jan 1999 1:01 am
- Location: killeen,tx usa * R.I.P.
100% agree CC except when the substitute chords don't fit the melody and the melody has to be changed to fit the substitute chords, as in this instance.
The Dominant seventh of the 3 minor chord is the first chord of the section in question, the chord that's been substituted is a 3 minor instead of its Dominant seventh, requiring the melody note on the word "Love" to be changed and dropped a half step.. even then the whole line is incorrect against that particular chord.
Due diligence would suggest that this is wrong..
The Dominant seventh of the 3 minor chord is the first chord of the section in question, the chord that's been substituted is a 3 minor instead of its Dominant seventh, requiring the melody note on the word "Love" to be changed and dropped a half step.. even then the whole line is incorrect against that particular chord.
Due diligence would suggest that this is wrong..
I prefer the original versions myself, and I agree with Don Kona Woods, they do have a dreamy, magic quality.
I also believe, like CC, that substitutions have their place, and can create interest and variety. However in most cases, they should not (ever?) force the original melody to be changed.
Thanks for the examples and lesson Basil, your due diligence is helping me learn more about the steel, and helping me become a more rounded player!
I also believe, like CC, that substitutions have their place, and can create interest and variety. However in most cases, they should not (ever?) force the original melody to be changed.
Thanks for the examples and lesson Basil, your due diligence is helping me learn more about the steel, and helping me become a more rounded player!
The more I learn, the less I know!
Thanks Dean, I do hope I can help along the way..
Here's why this case is incorrect, if you look at the notation of bar 2 in both instances you'll see the notation is wrong against the chord in the second example.
What most of the altered versions do is to force the right notes against the wrong chord i.e. A-Db-B-A against the D minor chord, OR, alter the melody to fit usually just bluffing it.
as per the composer's intent :-
The bastardised way :-
Please excuse the rather hurried tab..
You may wonder about the positions I've used, well it's because the COMPLETE tab is actually in harmony and those frets are correct in that instance, as I said this is just a hurried example.
Here's why this case is incorrect, if you look at the notation of bar 2 in both instances you'll see the notation is wrong against the chord in the second example.
What most of the altered versions do is to force the right notes against the wrong chord i.e. A-Db-B-A against the D minor chord, OR, alter the melody to fit usually just bluffing it.
as per the composer's intent :-
The bastardised way :-
Please excuse the rather hurried tab..
You may wonder about the positions I've used, well it's because the COMPLETE tab is actually in harmony and those frets are correct in that instance, as I said this is just a hurried example.
Basil, after hearing the examples, and then seeing how and why the substituted chords don't work with the melody, I too, am left wondering why they were changed in the first place??
Thank you for posting the full tab for "Sophisticated Hula". I am at work right now, so won't be able to play it until tonight! As a relative newcomer to steel (6 years on dobro, 2 on non pedal steel, 20 something on regular guitar), I am really enjoying learning Hawaiian songs and tunes with their associated techniques, particularly forward/reverse slants. Just this month I had a kind of "eureka!" moment when I started playing consistently smooth-ish split string slants. Then as an experiment in pushing my luck, tried reverse split string slants... holy cow! Lots more to work on there.
Thank you for posting the full tab for "Sophisticated Hula". I am at work right now, so won't be able to play it until tonight! As a relative newcomer to steel (6 years on dobro, 2 on non pedal steel, 20 something on regular guitar), I am really enjoying learning Hawaiian songs and tunes with their associated techniques, particularly forward/reverse slants. Just this month I had a kind of "eureka!" moment when I started playing consistently smooth-ish split string slants. Then as an experiment in pushing my luck, tried reverse split string slants... holy cow! Lots more to work on there.
The more I learn, the less I know!
I think that someone heard it wrong and then taught it to some people that way. I hate it when the composer's intent gets lost. I don't see it as "which sounds better", as both are musically valid. I see it as a sign of disrespect for the composer if the change is deliberate.
I wrote a song once and the singer I was working with kept changing the melody. Then the bass player started following him instead of the chart. I told them to forget it, I didn't want them to do the song at all. It was just wasted rehearsal time. I won't fight over it.
By the way, Baz, that's a really beautiful tab. Thanks for posting it.
I wrote a song once and the singer I was working with kept changing the melody. Then the bass player started following him instead of the chart. I told them to forget it, I didn't want them to do the song at all. It was just wasted rehearsal time. I won't fight over it.
By the way, Baz, that's a really beautiful tab. Thanks for posting it.
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video
Baz,
IMO does it needs to sound like this one.You probably heard this one already.
Rudy Wairata - Sophisticated Hula
this is what I grew up with and what I learned to play way back.
Ron
P.S
Cool job that tab...thanks
IMO does it needs to sound like this one.You probably heard this one already.
Rudy Wairata - Sophisticated Hula
this is what I grew up with and what I learned to play way back.
Ron
P.S
Cool job that tab...thanks
Merry Christmas Ron and b0b and all,
Ron I believe you're a genuine caring person, so please don't take this as a comment on you personally...
your example is EXACTLY what I'm talking about..Superb musicianship very good engineering (Bar the usual 2 buckets too much reverb) BUT, although Rudy's playing is superb and his variations on the melody are in good taste and don't detract from the composer's intent (Because they are intimating the correct notes) the producer and vocalists are SO WRONG.. I.E.
Swing your partner round, Hear this lovely sound ? Should be "Soon you'll cover ground"
And :-
A native hula maiden THEY love to dance ?
They do their dancing to the beating of LOVE
Is actually "the native hula maidens they love to dance, they do their dancing to the beating of drums"
And a myriad more of misheard lyrics..
A good version of the song, could have been so much better..
Funny Mondegreens are know throughout the world, but in this example, this type of "INSUFFICIENT STUDY" isn't helpful to the perpetration of the genre' of Hapa Haole Hawaiian Music.
Ron, You will have taken this version to be your definitive version and so pass it along believing it to be correct, that's what I'm saying regarding due diligence, we owe it to the composer to perpetrate his intent melodically and lyrically, any deviation is not only disrespectful but shows lack of study of the song/tune and reflects on the performer's integrity..
As an aside :-
Some funny extract from the Wikipedia page on mondegreens
Examples in song lyrics
* The "top 3" mondegreens submitted regularly to mondegreen expert Jon Carroll are:[1]
1. Gladly the cross-eyed bear[3] (from the line in the hymn "Keep Thou My Way" by Fanny Crosby, "Kept by Thy tender care, gladly the cross I'll bear")[6] Carroll and many others quote it as "Gladly the cross I'd bear". Ed McBain used the mondegreen as the title of a novel. Also, this mondegreen is paraphrased by the band They Might Be Giants in their song "Hide Away Folk Family" (Sadly the cross-eyed bear's been put to sleep behind the stairs, and his shoes are laced with irony.)
2. There's a bathroom on the right (the line at the end of each verse of "Bad Moon Rising" by Creedence Clearwater Revival: "There's a bad moon on the rise")
3. 'Scuse me while I kiss this guy (from a lyric in the song "Purple Haze", by Jimi Hendrix: "'Scuse me while I kiss the sky").
et al.:
Ron I believe you're a genuine caring person, so please don't take this as a comment on you personally...
your example is EXACTLY what I'm talking about..Superb musicianship very good engineering (Bar the usual 2 buckets too much reverb) BUT, although Rudy's playing is superb and his variations on the melody are in good taste and don't detract from the composer's intent (Because they are intimating the correct notes) the producer and vocalists are SO WRONG.. I.E.
Swing your partner round, Hear this lovely sound ? Should be "Soon you'll cover ground"
And :-
A native hula maiden THEY love to dance ?
They do their dancing to the beating of LOVE
Is actually "the native hula maidens they love to dance, they do their dancing to the beating of drums"
And a myriad more of misheard lyrics..
A good version of the song, could have been so much better..
Funny Mondegreens are know throughout the world, but in this example, this type of "INSUFFICIENT STUDY" isn't helpful to the perpetration of the genre' of Hapa Haole Hawaiian Music.
Ron, You will have taken this version to be your definitive version and so pass it along believing it to be correct, that's what I'm saying regarding due diligence, we owe it to the composer to perpetrate his intent melodically and lyrically, any deviation is not only disrespectful but shows lack of study of the song/tune and reflects on the performer's integrity..
As an aside :-
Some funny extract from the Wikipedia page on mondegreens
Examples in song lyrics
* The "top 3" mondegreens submitted regularly to mondegreen expert Jon Carroll are:[1]
1. Gladly the cross-eyed bear[3] (from the line in the hymn "Keep Thou My Way" by Fanny Crosby, "Kept by Thy tender care, gladly the cross I'll bear")[6] Carroll and many others quote it as "Gladly the cross I'd bear". Ed McBain used the mondegreen as the title of a novel. Also, this mondegreen is paraphrased by the band They Might Be Giants in their song "Hide Away Folk Family" (Sadly the cross-eyed bear's been put to sleep behind the stairs, and his shoes are laced with irony.)
2. There's a bathroom on the right (the line at the end of each verse of "Bad Moon Rising" by Creedence Clearwater Revival: "There's a bad moon on the rise")
3. 'Scuse me while I kiss this guy (from a lyric in the song "Purple Haze", by Jimi Hendrix: "'Scuse me while I kiss the sky").
et al.:
As a further example of not studying a song sufficiently :-
toe lima lani e'
Of course SHOULD be "kou lima nani ê"
Jerry Byrd let THIS go without commenting ! Maybe HE didn't know, after all it was BEFORE he moved to Hawaii.
There are sections of Lovely Hula Hands that also exhibit the same form of evolution!
The line "every little move expresses so I'll understand" has been misinterpreted melodically and chordally (not only by Marty as above) since the 50's.
Alfred Apaka has the right slant on it HERE
BTW some lovely PEDAL steel by Jules on this one.(Fender 1000)
Here's Ray Kinney with the wrong words although he recorded it many times earlier with the correct ones ?
In this one he sings "every little move expresses, so I'll understand, OF the tender meaning ?"
Instead of ALL the tender meaning..
Another one with the wrong words and chords by The Makaha Sons
Where on earth they got "As the swirling wind on the Pali" beats me, and where they got the pentatonic run on the double dominant chord at the end of the guitar solo is also a puzzle, as the actual melody differs substantially in note and intent.
Again a SUPERB performance marred by lack of care.
In fairness it's really the producer's fault more so than the artiste, as they are the final arbiter, as in this, Bing Crosby's correct example, produced by Nelson Riddle.
And how about the lyrics of this version, are they wrong or are all the others incomplete ?
toe lima lani e'
Of course SHOULD be "kou lima nani ê"
Jerry Byrd let THIS go without commenting ! Maybe HE didn't know, after all it was BEFORE he moved to Hawaii.
There are sections of Lovely Hula Hands that also exhibit the same form of evolution!
The line "every little move expresses so I'll understand" has been misinterpreted melodically and chordally (not only by Marty as above) since the 50's.
Alfred Apaka has the right slant on it HERE
BTW some lovely PEDAL steel by Jules on this one.(Fender 1000)
Here's Ray Kinney with the wrong words although he recorded it many times earlier with the correct ones ?
In this one he sings "every little move expresses, so I'll understand, OF the tender meaning ?"
Instead of ALL the tender meaning..
Another one with the wrong words and chords by The Makaha Sons
Where on earth they got "As the swirling wind on the Pali" beats me, and where they got the pentatonic run on the double dominant chord at the end of the guitar solo is also a puzzle, as the actual melody differs substantially in note and intent.
Again a SUPERB performance marred by lack of care.
In fairness it's really the producer's fault more so than the artiste, as they are the final arbiter, as in this, Bing Crosby's correct example, produced by Nelson Riddle.
And how about the lyrics of this version, are they wrong or are all the others incomplete ?
Basil,
it is probably my personal preference when I hear Rudy play.
I grew up with him, George and the Kilima Hawaiians back in the 60's and 70's.
Sometimes I wish my dad had a wider variety in records back then
.
I apreciate all your efforts in trying to help non-pedal and pedal steel guitar players.
You're the one in England and Europe that sticks out a lot and helps people a lot.Maybe they have not said it enough yet.....
Merry Christmas (2 days) and a happy New Year.
Ron
it is probably my personal preference when I hear Rudy play.
I grew up with him, George and the Kilima Hawaiians back in the 60's and 70's.
Sometimes I wish my dad had a wider variety in records back then
.I apreciate all your efforts in trying to help non-pedal and pedal steel guitar players.
You're the one in England and Europe that sticks out a lot and helps people a lot.Maybe they have not said it enough yet.....
Merry Christmas (2 days) and a happy New Year.
Ron
Ron, if the truth be know, George de Fretes and Joyce Aubrey, Rudy, Coy and all from that era in the Netherlands are to be applauded for helping keep Hawaiian music alive in Europe, Likewise in the UK Felix and others deserve mention.
My earliest memories of trying to play Hawaiian guitar are of copying George de Fretes singles at a friends house and wondering what tunings the Dutch players were using to get such nice chords. Little did I know that the majority of the time they were using D9th or similar tuned down tunings. It was only after analysing the "Open Strings" used in Ticklin' the strings as played by most Dutch players that it all became clearer then.
As an aside, Pat and I are going to Holland May 5th to play at a Lei of Emeralds show with Rene Ranti from Rijswijk..
From the December Issue of Aloha Dream.
My earliest memories of trying to play Hawaiian guitar are of copying George de Fretes singles at a friends house and wondering what tunings the Dutch players were using to get such nice chords. Little did I know that the majority of the time they were using D9th or similar tuned down tunings. It was only after analysing the "Open Strings" used in Ticklin' the strings as played by most Dutch players that it all became clearer then.
As an aside, Pat and I are going to Holland May 5th to play at a Lei of Emeralds show with Rene Ranti from Rijswijk..
From the December Issue of Aloha Dream.
Last edited by basilh on 24 Dec 2008 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
here's the one I used in playing "Sophisticated Hula"
All Star Hawaiian Band-Sophisticated Hula
Ron
P.S
let's not forget Wout Steenhuis Basil.He was a pioneer himself.
- D
B
A
F#
D
A
All Star Hawaiian Band-Sophisticated Hula
Ron
P.S
let's not forget Wout Steenhuis Basil.He was a pioneer himself.
I've heard it Ron... IT'S number 9 on the list I posted at the top HERE..Rudy played this one a lot too.Listen to this version by "The All Star Hawaiian Band"
All Star Hawaiian Band-Sophisticated Hula
Did you not play the examples ?
You don't know what you're missing.. there are some rarities there like the Felix broadcast one and the early Waikiki Islanders BBC one..
Merry Christmas to you an Karen Ron from this household.. health wealth and happiness is our wish for you in our prayers.
-
Alan Brookes
- Posts: 13218
- Joined: 29 Mar 2006 1:01 am
- Location: Brummy living in Southern California
Alan: Happy Christmas from Tamworth..
I posted the tracks in a rough chronological order although the years aren't there..
1. Lani McIntire's Hawaiians
2. The Waikiki Islanders (My father in law's group)
3. Roland Peachey And His Royal Hawaiians
4. Felix Mendelssohn & His Hawaiian Serenaders 1946
5. Felix Mendelssohn & His Hawaiian Serenaders 1948
6. Charles Kaipo And His Happy Hawaiians
7. Dutch Group the Tahiti's
8. I Don't know !
9. All Star Hawaiian Band
10.Makaha Sons
I posted the tracks in a rough chronological order although the years aren't there..
1. Lani McIntire's Hawaiians
2. The Waikiki Islanders (My father in law's group)
3. Roland Peachey And His Royal Hawaiians
4. Felix Mendelssohn & His Hawaiian Serenaders 1946
5. Felix Mendelssohn & His Hawaiian Serenaders 1948
6. Charles Kaipo And His Happy Hawaiians
7. Dutch Group the Tahiti's
8. I Don't know !
9. All Star Hawaiian Band
10.Makaha Sons
Happy tunes from me to all, some of my BBC work as both arranger and guitarist.
Que Que Bahaina Tem
Romace in Rio[/url]
Que Que Bahaina Tem
Romace in Rio[/url]
-
Mac McKenzie
- Posts: 114
- Joined: 28 Sep 2005 12:01 am
- Location: Auckland, New Zealand * R.I.P.
Sophisticated Hula
Thanks for all the versions, Bas, I enjoyed every one of them.I don't think we should be too rigid, otherwise we would not have inverted or alternate chords. That means we would not have had Django Rheinhardt or Les Paul.
Lovely Hula Hands has one version " telling of the rains in the valley - and the swirling winds over the Pali," and I think that is on a Hawaii Calls album. I have two versions by Dick McIntire, one, the band does the vocal, the one with Frances Langford has " Sweet Hawaiian Sands. " If it did not bother that maestro, should it bother us?
Bill Wofgramm used to get his relations in the US.to send the music of the top songs which he used and he would be playing those songs before they were heard on radio. He recorded " Planting Rice," as per music which was pretty bland as compared to the slightly altered and upbeat American version. I think it was on this Forum someone posted about a young band that was real trouble recording a song, it was not coming together at all. The recording engineer said that Dolly Parton was in the other studio and maybe she could help. " Hello boys. Having trouble? Let's listen to what you have got." Then she said ' Try doing it this way" and bingo. Frank Ifield, out of the blue, put in his little yodel effect in "I Remember You " - it was not in the music but it made it a best seller. Saw a TV programme recently with jazz on a ukulele, "Hukilau " like you have never heard it before with all jazz chords. Beautiful.
Lovely Hula Hands has one version " telling of the rains in the valley - and the swirling winds over the Pali," and I think that is on a Hawaii Calls album. I have two versions by Dick McIntire, one, the band does the vocal, the one with Frances Langford has " Sweet Hawaiian Sands. " If it did not bother that maestro, should it bother us?
Bill Wofgramm used to get his relations in the US.to send the music of the top songs which he used and he would be playing those songs before they were heard on radio. He recorded " Planting Rice," as per music which was pretty bland as compared to the slightly altered and upbeat American version. I think it was on this Forum someone posted about a young band that was real trouble recording a song, it was not coming together at all. The recording engineer said that Dolly Parton was in the other studio and maybe she could help. " Hello boys. Having trouble? Let's listen to what you have got." Then she said ' Try doing it this way" and bingo. Frank Ifield, out of the blue, put in his little yodel effect in "I Remember You " - it was not in the music but it made it a best seller. Saw a TV programme recently with jazz on a ukulele, "Hukilau " like you have never heard it before with all jazz chords. Beautiful.
"White Hawaiian Sands, nothing in this tropic splendour, like the lightest touch of your slender Lovely Hula Hands" is the of omitted second verse, as sung also by Bing Crosby.
L1kewise with the "Telling of the rains" and the alternative "When our fingertips are meeting"
2 verses and two different middle sections, and I think never recorded in full by anyone. Bing's is the only version I know (Other than our own) where the verse is included.
As for Les Paul and Django, I'm pretty sure they played the correct chords to the standards of the day (With added passing ones).
Could you cite an example of where they changed the intent ?
Adding passing chords and using alternative inversions is what arrangers do, and songs evolve that way, it's when the melody or words are changed to suit the limitations of the performer that I draw the line..
I would liken Frank Ifield's contribution to "I Remember you" as adding an octave grace note, totally permissible.. Grace notes and altered phrasing are the tools of "Interpretation"
L1kewise with the "Telling of the rains" and the alternative "When our fingertips are meeting"
2 verses and two different middle sections, and I think never recorded in full by anyone. Bing's is the only version I know (Other than our own) where the verse is included.
As for Les Paul and Django, I'm pretty sure they played the correct chords to the standards of the day (With added passing ones).
Could you cite an example of where they changed the intent ?
Adding passing chords and using alternative inversions is what arrangers do, and songs evolve that way, it's when the melody or words are changed to suit the limitations of the performer that I draw the line..
I would liken Frank Ifield's contribution to "I Remember you" as adding an octave grace note, totally permissible.. Grace notes and altered phrasing are the tools of "Interpretation"
-
Gerald Ross
- Posts: 3205
- Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
- Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
- Contact:
I do like the original chords better but the altered chords don't bother me at all.
The thing I really find annoying is the tone of the acoustic guitar on example #10 by the Makaha Sons. If there ever was a dictionary definition of the "Piezo Quack" that is it... Sheesh... they could have EQ'ed that out in the recording but they chose to keep it.
I have noticed that the "Piezo Quack" is prevelent in many contemporary Hawaiian recordings. I don't understand it. To my ears it's way too trebly and brittle sounding.
The thing I really find annoying is the tone of the acoustic guitar on example #10 by the Makaha Sons. If there ever was a dictionary definition of the "Piezo Quack" that is it... Sheesh... they could have EQ'ed that out in the recording but they chose to keep it.
I have noticed that the "Piezo Quack" is prevelent in many contemporary Hawaiian recordings. I don't understand it. To my ears it's way too trebly and brittle sounding.
Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
A UkeTone Recording Artist
CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records
Gerald's Hawaiian Steel Guitar/Ukulele Website
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
A UkeTone Recording Artist
CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records
Gerald's Hawaiian Steel Guitar/Ukulele Website
-
Mac McKenzie
- Posts: 114
- Joined: 28 Sep 2005 12:01 am
- Location: Auckland, New Zealand * R.I.P.
Sophisticated Hula
No examples because somehow the whole thing has skewed. I was trying to point out that if music is applied too rigidly it kills enterprise and inspiration. Frank Ifield added that yodel bit out of the blue, it fitted, sounded good and made the record a hit. But it was not written as such. That's all. Some years ago, an Aussie interviewer tried to belittle Prince Tui Teka on his lack of musical knowledge. Tui was a huge man and those that were there said that he pulled his stomach in and grew another six inches and said " We play from the heart. We play from what we are made of." Django played from the heart, he played chords that were in his mind, chords not heard before. If music was too rigid and confined him to standard chords, we would not have had his inspirational playing. That's all.
And that's all for this year, a New Year tomorrow and best wishes to all.
And that's all for this year, a New Year tomorrow and best wishes to all.
-
Mac McKenzie
- Posts: 114
- Joined: 28 Sep 2005 12:01 am
- Location: Auckland, New Zealand * R.I.P.
Poll Sophisticated Hula
With all the names of who recorded this song, one name missing, that of the composer. Did Sol K. Bright ever record his own song? Anyone know?