The Steel Guitar Forum

Don Brown, Sr. wrote:Glenn, No, I wasn't asking the question. I was simply stating, that it would be pretty hard (actually impossible) for anyone to ask any rep, about anything, without first and foremost, knowing what work was involved.

You can bet if I were paying for any service, I'm going to know "exactly" what work was, or was not, done. It's also a person's right to know.

I could not agree more! Thanks for putting it so short and sweet Don!

Hey Don Brown, You are correct, we are back to 17 again...Mr. Leander liked the sound but he has yet to get the mod done on his Steel..thanks for setting the record straight

I have no doubt that Tommy Young's mod "works", but there's no way in hell that I would send my $4000 Williams off to be modded without knowing what work was going to be done. If you ask Ken Fox the details of his Peavey or Webb amp mods, he'll tell you exactly what parts he'll change and what the new parts will be.

Most people are not comfortable doing "mod level" work themselves, which is why people like Ken Fox and Tommy Young can do a good business marketing their expertise. In most cases this kind of work voids the manufacturers warranty. The customer has to really trust the mod technician. A detailed list of what work will be done goes a long way towards establishing that trust.

Now, I'm not saying that Tommy must divulge his trade secrets. I'm just saying that I wouldn't risk my $4k baby's warranty on someone's workmanship without knowing in detail what would be done.

Sorry, Tommy, but even though I think that your mod is great, I won't be sending you my Willy.

I play a carter and I would never dream of a mod, when it would void a warranty this would be huge red flag wouldn't it?

If I want to sound better truthfully I need to practice a little more.

So why do builders void their warranty when your mod is done to a guitar TY?

there's no way in hell that I would send my $4000 Williams off to be modded without knowing what work was going to be done.<<

Hey b0b, So far on this list of 17 people that have given very positive testimonials about TY's mod almost 50% (8) of these people live close to TY's location..6 in Ms. and 2 in Ala. If I lived across the Street from TY and saw and heard the results of his work and I liked it, I might go for it but to send an expensive instrument 1000's of miles on just hearsay and no idea of what was being done would just be crazy on my part. If TY's Mod is that good he may be able to sell his ideas to one of the builders and the customer can have his great mod from the start without having the cost of shipping his Steel on a round trip to ETHELSVILLE, ALA. Anybody that works to improve the Steel is a great asset and friend of the Steel Guitar community.

. . . there's no way in hell that I would send my $4000 Williams off to be modded without knowing what work was going to be done.

You are the 18th person to unequivocally advocate this!

Just wanted to let you guy's know a few more facts here. There has been two guitar's sent to me ""DIRECT"" from the builder, the owners had them shipped to me without even playing it period. that is sort of out of the ordinary but it has happened,, one of the those builders stopped by my booth and discussed it with me yesterday. As he has played that guitar after I did my MAX-TONE MOD on it himself and stated he really like the tone he herd on it,, hope this helps your feeling's a bit gentlemen. Plus I have done several more almost new Guitar's that the owner's were not happy with it's tone when it was received..

Gentlemen if you are happy with the TONE your guitar has now ,, then by all means DO NOT send it to me, because you would not like it changed and you couldn't tell me what you wanted me to change about it anyway. But there is player's that want and demand the very best that someone can offer them, that is what I to try to do.

There are some things that some guitars will not achieve without some machine work and ETC. These things we discuss in full detail when they call me with the brand of guitar they have and what they are expecting when the guitar is completed. there are other Brands of guitars that DO NOT need little to ""NONE"" machine work therefore they are less in price that is why I don't give out prices until I know what brand of guitar it is, along with what other problems it may have and what the owner expects his likes and dislikes also, along with many other things such as pick-up choices an etc. all this before an agreement is made. So the OWNER is full aware of any thing that will jepardize the integrity of his instrument.I certainly hope this helps you guy's understand a little better thanks my phone number is 205-658-1005 please leave a message,name, and your number so that I can get back with you.ASAP Thanks

I will stand behind Tommy. I have one of his Max Tone that he did on my Emmons. It will give you tone and sustain just about to the pickup. If you like you are Welcome To come by my store in Indiana and try it out. If you have another Emmons LeGrande bring it with you play them and compare them. I have a New Horn on order and this is why the great Emmons is on the forum for sale, so you can have a chance to check the Max Tone out if you purchase it. I have talked to Tommy and he is a great person to deal with.

A builder + TY's mod working together. It's just a matter of time. I've always said this once I played TY's modded guitars vs unmodded ones. The man knows his business! Go ahead MODMAN!

Hey Folks, #3 and #9 on our list of 17 just gave second testimonials about TY's Steel Guitar mod. Folks, when people give second testimonials about work they have had done and are completely satisfied after time passes, well that really speaks well about TY's work. There are some people that are trying to marginalize TY's work without actually having the mod and playing the mod...I say that if you have not tried it you do not have the facts to deny it. First get the facts and experience and then you can talk about it..talk without facts is cheap..many can talk but few can do. Hey TY, keep that good work going

Feb 1st BM,

I know nothing about this mod...

I am a little confused with your last post from march 17 BM, do you know something about this mod? True I don't know anything about it, I can only guess, This mod is not for me by any means, but I can tell you this much we all desire to search that "holy grail" of tone, guys I know where it is and it cost's alot less than you would think!!

So far this thread has not had one negative testimonial about TY's mod and the thread is over three months old.

I think that's human nature. If I paid a lot of money for something, and then found out it was a bad deal, I probably wouldn't be broadcasting it! For example: A lot of the used guitars sold are guitars people are unloading because they didn't like them. But how often do you actually look at an ad where the seller says "I really didn't like it", or "It didn't sound or play as good as I thought it would"?

It's considered poor etiquette on this forum to bad mouth another person's work or product. I understand the reason for this, but it's frustrating to watch this thread, or others like it. Since we all prefer what we prefer, we don't play the guitars we don't play for a reason, but we're not supposed to talk about those reasons here.

John, I agree with you (I think--if I've correctly understood your point of view!) It's true: I've learned over several years now on the Forum that it's considered bad form here to say anything negative about any person's work or product or any player or playing. I understand it too, but it kind of makes you wonder what the meaning of "Forum" is. Here it seems to mean "Positive Reinforcement and Mutual Admiration Society".

I can honestly say I'm a person who doesn't relish having negative thoughts about anything. In conversations in my own life I'm always getting in trouble for responding to harsh criticisms of someone or something by trying to see the other side in order to foster suspension of judgment--that really ticks people off! But on the other hand, I look to this Forum for information. And in a sanitized version of an earthy metaphor I once heard from a friend, If there's [something bad] in the punch bowl, I want to know about it!

I've learned over several years now on the Forum that it's considered bad form here to say anything negative about any person's work or product or any player or playing. I understand it too, but it kind of makes you wonder what the meaning of "Forum" is. Here it seems to mean "Positive Reinforcement and Mutual Admiration Society<<

Brint, I think there is nothing wrong with stating your experience with a product, good or bad. For example, if I say I bought product X and will never buy another product X, I am stating my experience with product X...others may have a different opinion and that is OK. I would be "out of line" to state that because I had a bad experience with product X anybody else that bought and liked product X is a dimwit or crazy. A product or service will usually live or die based on their own merit. The SGF is a great source of information for the Steel Guitar community.

Brad, Your statement of:

A product or service will usually live or die based on their own merit.

Simply isn't a true statement. Ever remember hearing this one:

There's a sucker born every minute.

That is a true fact, in everyday life, and it pertains to anything and everything in general.

It's not (in any way) meaning anyone is getting ripped off, but it does mean (even) if they were, there would still be just as many behind them, in line, buying into whatever it was, that was being sold by anyone.

Hey Don Brown, Sr., Most Steelers educate themselves and ask a million questions before they buy a product or service and the SGF serves them very well in this respect. I always tell people to read and get all the information they can and if possible TRY IT BEFORE YOU BUY IT.

Hey Brad Malone, It's evident, you didn't read what I said, very well.

I mentioned nothing whatsoever, other than saying your statement was not a true fact.

Why do you think con artists (men & women alike) make out so well, selling (nothing) for big bucks?

The answer is: Only because, there ARE suckers born every minute, (that regardless) will buy into anything.

And, I stand by my statement, which again, is simply my answer, in answer to what you had posted.... Don

I have a Fessey that has had the modification done by Tommy. I had heared about the modification and did not give it much thought. However when I got my Fessey and played a couple of gigs. I was in awe. It is especially noticeable when you are working with two and three strings.

I am disturbed by the tone of this thread, to the point that I have to say a few things.

Tommy Young has gotten very defensive, which is understandable. His work is being questioned and even ridiculed by people who have no personal experience with it. It might have been better if he had echoed Merle Travis' quote of the old Buick slogan, "Ask the man who owns one." And then drop it.

And it might have been better for him to not call his service a "modification," as this makes some afraid of voiding a warrantee. I personally don't consider anything that is reversible to be a modification. Adjustments on a musical instrument are not considered modifications. Certainly not on a PSG.

I get a strong sense of bullying; people trying to force TY to reveal his methods, so they can try to do it themselves. That is as unethical as sharing music online instead of buying the CD. If you want to learn his methods, ask him if you can apprentice yourself to him.

If you are completely happy with the sound of your instrument, great! If not, the cost of MaxTone treatment would be less than the cost of trading up. You don't need to know how he does it, any more than you need to know what makes a Lawrence pickup sound different from a TrueTone, or how Jaqwires are made different from other strings.

Tommy has some happy customers. If you don't want to be one, fine. But stop beating up on him. And stop insulting the happy customers by claiming they've been conned, or have "cardboard ears."

I have no dog in this fight. I don't have a "Modded" guitar. But when I can afford to get my MSA Classic restored, I think I'll send it to Tommy. That red sparkle finish looks awesome.

Rich Peterson wrote:it might have been better for him to not call his service a "modification," as this makes some afraid of voiding a warrantee. I personally don't consider anything that is reversible to be a modification. Adjustments on a musical instrument are not considered modifications. Certainly not on a PSG.

I get a strong sense of bullying; people trying to force TY to reveal his methods, so they can try to do it themselves.

Rich, I must say I don't share your impression. I don't think most of the people who've been prodding at TY are hoping to "steal" his methods in order to do it themselves. I think most are simply wary in a world where the fact is there are plenty of snake oil salesmen promising miracle results from products or methods that are entirely bogus. When someone is selling something bogus, they don't tend to be forthcoming about the exact nature of what they're selling, so failure to be forthcoming is a red flag to the wary--it arouses skepticism, and it should.

I am NOT saying that I think TY is a "snake oil salesman". Let me be clear: I DO NOT DOUBT TOMMY YOUNG'S INTEGRITY--I've read at least nearly every post he's made about his work, and I'm convinced he's on the up and up. I think he believes in the validity of what he does, and so do his many customers. I make no judgment pro or con about whether they are right.

But I think Tommy has unfortunately fallen victim to a regrettable consequence of his own wariness--his fear of being ripped off and resultant caution has, in my opinion, given some the FALSE impression that he "has something to hide".

We'll see how the tone of discussion goes after his latest post. If I'm right about the motives of those who've insistently been pressing questions--I hope I am--this paragraph from his post, long overdue, should go a long way to quiet the clamor:

There are some things that some guitars will not achieve without some machine work and ETC. These things we discuss in full detail when they call me with the brand of guitar they have and what they are expecting when the guitar is completed. there are other Brands of guitars that DO NOT need little to ""NONE"" machine work therefore they are less in price that is why I don't give out prices until I know what brand of guitar it is, along with what other problems it may have and what the owner expects his likes and dislikes also, along with many other things such as pick-up choices an etc. all this before an agreement is made. So the OWNER is full aware of any thing that will jepardize the integrity of his instrument.

That's well said, Tommy, and I for one wish for your sake that you'd gotten it said sooner.

I'm neither endorsing nor criticizing Tommy's work, but can anyone find fault with the business ethic expressed here?

Rich, I think you're reading far too much into this thread that just isn't there. Such as:

And stop insulting the happy customers by claiming they've been conned

I've not read one reply where anyone has said anything like that at all.

If what the people heard after any work done by anyone, satisfied them, that's all that counts.

Don, perhaps I misunderstood your previous post, but it sure seemed like that's what you meant. And other posts have suggested that people who've gotten the "Mod" think it worked because they want to believe. I think people who are fussy enough about tone to have TY do his thing to their instrument are going to know if it was improved.

Brint, I agree that Tommy's communication hasn't been ideal. That can happen easily when a person feels he's under attack. It seemed to me that the questions went far beyond wariness.

And I can appreciate Tommy's reluctance to disclose information that is his greatest asset. As I've grown older and less competitive in the local music scene, I've become less willing to give away knowledge that gives me somewhat of an edge on the sixstring: both in how I play and how I get my sound.

BOB: If you are happy with your WILLY please play it as it is..
RICH P: many thanks for your comments about my MOD being placed in the same catagory as snake oil salesmen, con artist,an ETC. """JESUS CHRIST""" couldn't please everyone neither can I..

I along with many others have placed my MODDED guitars along side unmodded guitars of the same vintage, brand, both being d10's sometimes even the same color.. The MODDED guitars produced cleaner,clearer notes in the lower ranges and strings ((open,1st fret))until the last or 26th fret,, the notes in the upper ranges were simply richer, thicker, with much better string separation and sustain.. The guitar after my MAX-TONE MOD HAS A MUCH BETTER UNIFORMITY IN RELATION TO THE FRETBOARD. Gentlemen this is what I try to accomplish with each and every guitar that I work on.. so if this is not what you desire then please """DO NOT"" call or send your guitar to me and be happy with what you have now..

PS: I have never been nor tried to con anyone in my life, my conscience along with my Christianity would not allow me to do this in any way.. thanks and may ""GOD BLESS ""each of you

Wilburn Meeks, Thanks for your positive testimonial about TY's Mod on your Steel. You are number 18 on the list and the first from California.