The Steel Guitar Forum

I think that all members of this forum find this topic of "tone alteration" interesting. We all love the steel and love to talk about them. So naturally when someone claims to have a way to improve the instrument, it sparks great interest. After all ,who wouldn't want to improve their steel..right?

Brad is not the only one curious about this "MOD". What better place to discuss this subject than on a steel guitar forum.

Agree or not with Tommy's MOD. He just might be on to something here with all responses being positive. But having said that,I would be very reluctant to have my nice sounding new guitar altered in any way. I would really research the MOD and listen to all you guys and check it out for myself.

So Brad..you go check it out and get back to us on it ..will you. I appreciate your input on this as we need to hear all sides to this. Thank you

Tommy keep up the good work and don't get down on these guys. Let the MOD speak for itself and if it really is a good thing it will become very popular with these guys..Thank you

Respectfully...Bob

Robert Cates, I think we have to give people more time to reply, so far we only have 11 but as time passes we may get some more. Spending 3 to 5 thousand for a new steel is a big decision for most people and hopefully they will get it right and be satisfied with their purchase without having to spend more money to modify what should have been the "best it could be" in the first place. The builders should seek to acquire the best techniques available so their product is the "best it can be" before shipping...IMHO

Brad..you said it right. I agree

If I were a steel guitar builder. I surely would want my guitar to sound the best it could.
But we all know that a lot of things made in the good ole USA can be improved upon by others.

Time marches on
Bob

Johnny Thomasson wrote:Let me ask the inverse of the question that was asked earlier: do we know of anyone who had Tommy's mod done, and said "gee, that didn't help my guitar at all... total waste of money."?

I'm just trying to be objective here. I don't read every post on the forum, but every post I have read by anyone having first hand experience with Tommy's mod was highly positive. It's more than possible I missed one or more though.

Anyone that had Tommy's mod done and didn't like it, please raise your hand. A lot of people are understandably curious about it, and would like to have some objective feedback on this mod. I know I read user reviews before buying a product or service.

Most people will never say if they are "less than impressed" on a public forum, out of courtesy for an individuals feelings. Now if they feel strongly that they have been treated "less than respectful", they maybe more inclined to speak up.

About "setup", my take is this, there is a talent to understand where optimum setup actually is. Some do not recognise this "peak" and go too far and start undoing what they were accomplishing. Some folks have a knack for recognising when enough is enough.

Does any of you guy's posting on here ever go to the Steel shows in ST. LOUIS OR THE SUPER JAMS in NASHVILLE, or THE GOSPEL STEEL SHOW IN NASHVILLE and am this year gonna have a booth in DALLAS in MARCH,,,,,IF good ""LORD"" willing....I trying to have a few guitars there for all that are interested in playing or hearing my MAX-TONE MODIFICATION,,I sure do hope and pray all you that really are interested in having the very best """TONE"""that your guitar could possibly have stop by my booth at any of these shows,,, this week I'll be at the """DSSGA"""in Gulfport Ms,,, there'll be not less than 2 max-tone guitars scheduled to play on that stage this weekend,, had 3 played at the Fulton,Ms. show 3 weeks ago ,,, and picked up 1 guitar that was in the final JAM to be MAX-TONED after hearing the other MAX-TONED guitars in the Jam,,, He just picked it up today, and brought another guitar for a friend that plays the Steel SHOWS,,,[[[AS YOU GUY'S CAN SEE EVERY TIME SOME OF THE MAX-TONE GUITARS HIT THE STAGE MY BUSINESS GROWS,,, SO IT IS SPEAKING FOR ITSELF}}}}many thanks guy's i really appreciate all the pickers that are playing MAX-TONE MODIFICATIONS on their guitars, and the ones that are going to in the future.

BRAD if you are gonna make all these strong statements that you want answered . Just answer a few of mine, or do you not want people to know who you are..

PS::BRAD anytime you want to come down and check out a guitar before and after I will be more than glad to have you and will pay you to make a digital track so that all these people can hear what you heard or better yet have ""YOU"" do the playing on it,, if you play pedal steel

Dear Mr. TY, As a citizen of the USA the 1st Amendment gives me "Freedom of Speech". As you know, I have never said anything negative about your Mod, I'm just asking people who have had it done to respond to this thread. So far 12 people have given positive testimonials about your mod. I'm sure more people will respond to this thread as time passes and let us know their feelings about your mod. Tommy, every new Steel I buy seems better than the last one. My first PS was a Fender 1000, next a Sho-Bud, next a Mullen, last a Williams 600...the Williams 600 series is the best of the four, IMHO. Many People say the Emmons push pull was the best Steel ever built but I never had one, so I'm not going there. Good luck in finding more Steels to mod.

Brad i get upset when you make statements that only a few pickers could make my MOD legit,,, and all these guy's that has played their own guitars before and after were just a bunch of guy's down in the south as you named the states off as if their word wasn't at all worth nothing,,, but now if you said it or the given few you named off said it that makes it so,, these pro-player's play their particular guitars that are placed with them or built especially for them, by either family or builders that pay for endorsements of their given product,,, does that make it the best in the world,,,, not where i go to CHURCH

{quote)
"""""""""When someone like Buddy, Herby, Tommy, Sonny, or Paul endorses this procedure, that will give it solid credibility. If someone like Ed Packard, who's a whiz at substantiating things scientifically, would do measurements on a new guitar before and after the mod, that could also lend it an air of credibility. Until then, however, all the vagueness and secrecy around this procedure can do nothing but generate more questions...and doubt""""""""""""


BRAD:::: what you are saying is,,, if i pay someone that you like how he plays,,, then that makes my product legit """"NOT"""" These guy's told on here what they herd in their own guitars before and after and I didn't pay any of them a """"""penny""" to make these statements,,, but if i go and pay someone that you like how he plays,,, then and only then is it legit in your mind and heart >>>>>>>>>now we see where your real thoughts are,,,,


BRAD::: For the most part [[ but not all ]]the pro-players are playing instruments that belong to or contracted to them and or sold to them at a really reduced price,,,,they aren't allowed to let anyone do any modifications to that instrument or loose their deal with the builder.. just thought I'd let you know this fact so it would not bother you so much..

Tommy keep turning them thangs out. Anybody who can find Ethelsville Ala must really believe in em. Just a thought ! Is Jim Parker having them guitars modded to sound better or so they will sell better. You might ought to build a Tommy Young Steel Guitar. You do the most beautiful work at rebuilding I've ever seen. The proof is in the pudding so keep putting them out.
See you in Biloxi if I can get away.
Doc

When someone like Buddy, Herby, Tommy, Sonny, or Paul endorses this procedure, that will give it solid credibility. If someone like Ed Packard, who's a whiz at substantiating things scientifically, would do measurements on a new guitar before and after the mod, that could also lend it an air of credibility. Until then, however, all the vagueness and secrecy around this procedure can do nothing but generate more questions...and doubt""""""""""""


Hey TY, the above quote was made on Feb 1, 2009 by Mr. Donny Hinson and I agree with him. The guys turning out the CD's are the people making a living out of the business and they will go to any lenghts to get the best equiptment so they can achieve the best sound possible...guys like BE and PF were always miles ahead of the crowd, they were the ones that broke the ground to make it easy for the rest of the crowd. Tommy, I was in the Air Force, going to Radar school in Biloxi, Ms. the year was 1956. We had a Airmans club on the base and Little Jimmy Dickens and his band played at our club. The Steel Player in his band was Buddy Emmons..Buddy was probably 19 or 20 at the time and he had the best equiptment money could buy and he played better than anybody on this planet. My point is that no one, no company tells the top guys what they can do, the top guys tell the builders what to do or they go elsewhere.

I've been following this for a few weeks now. I'm new to pedal steel but have been designing, making and modifying mechanical things professionally for 33 years.

I've not enough experience with pedal steel to have strong opinions on the tone quality of one steel to another. Having done a fair amount of guitar repair, mods and building. I would agree that lots (probably most) of high quality instruments can benefit (at least incrementally) from refinements, optimizations and modifications.

I have to say that I also completely agree with the following statement D. Hinson made on Feb. 1 "...all the vagueness and secrecy around this procedure can do nothing but generate more questions...and doubt"

I don't doubt that someone who knows what they're doing and has lots of experience can optimize the function and/or tone from just about any pedal steel they go through carefully (kinda like blueprinting an engine). Sounds to me like Tommy Young is one of these talented individuals.

All this said, I find Mr. Young's defensiveness and insinuations towards B. Malone's experience and motives...to shower the most doubt and speculation of all over the issue at hand. Ever hear the Shakespeare line "...thou protesteth too much"?

The better educated your customers (and potential customers) are regarding the skills and techniques that make your work special the more your talents will be appreciated, recognized and utilized. There's plenty of examples of "the emperors new clothes" to be had in our world and some of us (maybe its just non-religious guys like me)need more than just faith and testimonials to help us to decide where our hard earned cash goes.

Tommy: Please, I hope you'll recognize that I've not put you or the quality of your work down. I too take a lot of pride in the technical work I do. At the end of the day, the work indeed should speak for itself. If interested parties cannot have any access to what's involved in this mod or even well documented before and after studies of instruments that you've modded...then we are left to make a leap of faith based purely on the opinions of others.

Good luck with Max-Tone...believe me the more people understand about what goes into your mods the more business you're going to get...if other pedal steel repair guys copy you...it just validates and promotes your skills. When the access is available, I think most of us would much rather work with the originator of something like this anyway.

All the best,
Ross Shafer

Brad I sure am glad that you spoke all about those 2 pro players,,,,, as both of those are extremely good players by all means one plays guitars that his DAD builds and the other has built and been a part of several different brands of guitars and played played professionally just about every brand [not less than 6 ] guitars on the market today, i guess by your account he told them all how to build it ---HIS WAY---and now if i'm thinking correctly he's playing even another brand of guitar did he tell him how to build that guitar,,,, I don't think so at least not in the patent office records,,, I couldn't find his name on the patent applied for, but I'm sure you know more than the patent office does.

But you did say they would go elsewhere if they did not do as he said..

PS: I do agree they all put his copedent on their guitar when he was playing it and whatever pup he preferred on it for sure..

Like I've said just stop by 1 of the booths that I have at the steel shows and check out some of the guitars that I have max-toned most of the time I will have 2 or 3 brands of guitars to choose from this week I'll have an EMMONS push/pull and a EMMONS Legrande II plus a MULLEN on display for any of you to play at the DSSGA show in Gulfport MS. Hope to meet you there..

Hey TY, reserve that L-II for my set for me, please sir. We'll see if you still got that ole MOD touch going on. Proofs in the puddin', as they say. See ya Saturday!

It has been a week since the 12th person that has had this mod replied...I'm hoping more will reply and give their testimonial about this mod. Who knows, this mod may become "the standard" and the builders may hire TY to do it to their Steels before shipping their unmodded steels to their customers. TY, if your mod catches on, you will be a very busy man. TY, good luck in my old Air Force town of Biloxi, Ms. I knew a great Steel player by the name of "Ernie Harvey" who lived and played steel in Biloxi...what a place.

Well Brad you just bought the beer with the Ernie Harvey statement. Here's a couple of pics of Harvey and my old friend bass player Leo Ladner playing with the Earnie Chaffin group "back then"
Ernie Harvey


Leo Ladner



Keeping the thread on track; Firstly, I have never seen nor heard Tommy's mod and I certainly will not denigrate something I've never heard or seen. I do know there was a thread a bit back that a gent was not too happy with something done to a guitar he bought from another gentleman, not Tommy. It got pretty hectic and I quit reading it.

But let's look at the situation in this manner; If the major builders were really concerned about the modification/enhancement or whatever, is anyone naive enough to believe they would not have had one of their axes pass through Tommy's process? I don't think so.

Now don't get the panties tied up too tight because I don't even know what brands of guitars Tommy has worked the magic on and really don't care. If anyone wants to really find out the score, why doesn't someone, who really does care-again, certainly not me, converse with someone like Chuck Back, Carpenter, Bennetts/Anderson, Johnny Fabian,especially Mike Mantey because the Mullen has been mentioned so much and any other builder who would be concerned about their product not being able to measure up?

I would suppose that Sizemore, and Bowman, Jr. Knight, Dumplin Cox, (and probably Mike Cass), those in the repair business, have already seen what was done.

My point is simply if the enhancement or modification as Tommy points out produces so great of an improvement, it will be obvious to those people who work on the axes daily would spot the action. Maybe not but I know all these guys and they didn't fall off the turnip truck right outside the door.

It's just a thought and Tommy I'm not trying to shoot your process in the foot, that would be silly because i don't know what the hell you do and I wish you the best.

Phred

MR. BILLY CARR; I'll be there ""LORD Willing"" and you stop by and check'em all out whichever your heart desire's and feels best to you.

FRED;;some of them ((your list))has played one and really complimented the tone it had immensely,, as he owned one just like the one he played... some of the builders has played my max-toned guitars. of those builders only 2 of them played their own brand of guitar, as i don't have all brands with me at every show,-------sure wish i could afford to have lots of brands maybe even 2 of each brand of guitar, a before and after would be real nice, but my finances says no way.

Brad there are a lot of these guy's that don't post on here, Just like the gentleman from WASHINGTON ST. they are timed and won't post as they don't like to be attacked for no reason and put on the spot, as that is what happens a lot on here,As I myself have been told that my MAX-TONE MODIFICATION was (((snake oil,,junk, lies, ---- all kinds of words on this forum,,,,,, because i will not tell you guy's what I do for several reasons,,, that I have told many times,, I don't and can't do the same to every brand of guitar as the guitars are just like people they are all different.

What I will tell you is this, I try to correct the tonal characteristics of the many different types of material that a STEEL GUITAR is built from, that is why these MODDED guitars have much better sustain,clearness of notes, plus purity of notes down low and above the 15th fret,, all the way to the last fret markers and above on some as has been stated, some guitars respond better than others because of wood and material differences and builder tolerences have an effect on this also.. what really amazes me is,, of the guitars that have the worst of tone (((thin and sharp))) sounding especially above the 12th fret,, really do most of the time,,, respond the best to these modifications and or changes that I do to correct the guitar..

I hope this helps you guy's understand better as to what I try to do and or achieve when working on these guitar's and OH yes we do all types of work on STEEL GUITARS also, We do wood work and paint work both,,some custom work also, I'll try to post a couple pics to look at,

Boy I wish I could be down there this weekend. Gonna' be some good pickin'. Bill and Bettie are super good folks and good friends. I used to fly with Bettie's Dad, George Trammel. He was one good guy.

Tommy: (quote) "FRED;;some of them ((your list))has played one and really complimented the tone it had immensely,, as he owned one just like the one he played... some of the builders has played my max-toned guitars. of those builders only 2 of them played their own brand of guitar," (unquote)

Tommy, I have no doubt every word you say is true, but do you think they thought enough of the mod to make tooling changes in their processes? That's what I meant. I don't want to start any crap, I guess I'm just curious about all of it, but I don't think my guitars are so screwed up that I would invest any more money in even a rehab. And you've already said what you thought about that. In any case all you old Mississippi/Alabama River Rats have a good time this weekend and somebody eat a couple of mud bugs for me.
Last time I was privileged to attend the great John Hughey was there in his gaudy shorts. Man sure do miss him.


phred

TY, will be at the Great steel show in Gulfport, Ms. tomorrow...I'm hoping that some of you people will get a chance to see, hear and play his great modded Steels and report back to this thread...it would be a 2600 mile trip for me so I won't make the trip. Also the builder of the Excel steel will be present and the great Carl Dixion will be there with his Great Excel Steel...it should be a very great day..wish I could be there.

BRAD thanks for telling them where I'll be,, hopefully ""LORD willing"""I'm gonna be there and as you see Mr. BILLY CARR of [[[CARRS STEEL GUITARS }}}is gonna play one and JIM PARKER is gonna play his MAX-TONED guitar if he is able,, he's been in the hospital so hopefully he'll be able to play with DOC RICKLES on their part of the show..

FRED:: None of the builders has used my mod that i'm aware of, as that would be stealing as I've not given any of them my permission to use max-tone changes to their guitars,, maybe in the future that could happen as it has been discussed, thanks for the thought's

PS; FRED I do love to eat those mud bug's but can't make myself do the whole cajun thing, guess my conscience bothers me

BRAD ;; THE GREAT HANK CORWIN'S to be there also, with his single neck e9th that most would think is a c6th in every way possible he and RONNIE MILEY gonna play twin stuff I think,,,,, along with many of the great coastal players too many to mention are to be there,with a whole bunch of EXCEL players like as you said CARL DIXON, MR. SMOOTH himself BILL STAFFORD,and many more so it will be fun..

Hey Tommy, I wish I could be there for the great event...I use to go to Gulfport in 1955 and 1956 when I went to Radar School at the Air Force Base in Biloxi...hope you guys have a great time. Back in the 50's the Gulfport Hotels had those big ceiling fans for cooling...AC was just starting to make inroads for cooling. Tommy, have a safe trip from Ethelsville, Ala. to Gulfport, Ms.

Tommy, I have a question which I don't know if anyone has asked: Have you shared with ANYONE at all the techniques you are using? After all, all of us have finite time on this earth, and if indeed your techniques bring the benefits numerous testimonials suggest, it would be a shame to have those who come after you're gone be unable to enjoy those benefits when your livelihood is no longer at issue.

Hey Fred, I thought that I was the only guy on the SGF that knew Ernie Harvey. He use to play at a joint called Sy Simons, in the town of Biloxi, Ms. He and his wife lived in a small house near the club. They even had a recorded song call the "Sy Simon shuffle". I was about 18 at the time and at the Air Base going to Radar school and I asked him to give me a few lessons on the steel. Ernie was a great C6th player and a good teacher...pedals were just starting to get popular..most people still played the non-pedal steel at that time. His gang use to also play at Keesler AFB and on the local Radio Station...the fiddle player in his group was the Radio DJ on the country music hour...forget if the Radio Station was in Biloxi or Gulfport.

BRIT;;;There is one person that knows for the most part what i do on most guitars not all,,, as i have stated all brands of guitars are different and must be treated different as to each its on characteristics, as when the same person plays a different brand of guitar,,, it sounds different to him because there is different grades of aluminum, different keyheads, different rollers,changers, and many other differences that you can see and hear in guitars, all these must be allowed for when doing its own TONE modification to reach [/u]that guitars,richest, cleanest, purist TONE available. I've gotta be getting packed up see you guy's after the show,, hopefully at the show

ok guys I guess i'm #13 however in this case i'm a lucky man. yes it's true, i'm the one Tommy mention
a couple of weeks ago had my guitar max-tone. maybe i can't speak for everyone espeacilly long time players but i can say I know my guitar and it sounded good before the mod and i was reluctant about doing this but the more i heard and seen and played myself the more i was sold on the idea and guys let me tell you i'm just amazesd or in awe as the difference in tone quality and sustain and playability. in a few words I LOVE MY GUITAR, and Tommy it's not for sale!! lol ps by the way, just a thought, when anybody buys a new car or hot rod , what do you think when they get them modified? they like to soup them up don't they? same thing here, no disrespect to the builder, happy steeling....

Tommy where you ever successful in securing a pattent on your mod?

Michael Matthews, thanks for replying to this thread and you are number 13 to give a positive testimonial about TY's mod. You are also the 2nd guy from Ala, Doc Rickles was the first. So far we have 6 guys from Ms., two guys from Ala, one guy from Texas, one from Indiana, one from Tenn., one from Louisiana and one from Washington. All replies have been very positive...Hey TY, there is no news, like good news and this thread is going 100% your way.